SardineCon SF/2026

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FRAUDFORWARD
#96

これまでの歩みとこれから:銀行における不正防止を理解する

24 min

詐欺対策の皆さん、こんにちは!Fraud Forwardへようこそ!

今回のエピソードは、僕とあなた、二人だけの時間です。正直、それが一番しっくりきました。Fraud Forward はずっと「本音の対話」を大事にしてきましたが、ときどき立ち止まって、少し引いた視点から、これまでどこを歩んできたのか、僕が何を作ってきたのか、そしてこの仕事がこれからどこへ向かっていくのかを、同じ立場の仲間として語り合うことが大事だと思うんです。ゲストもいない。パネルディスカッションもない。うまく整えた掛け合いもなし。ただ、銀行における不正防止と、これからを形作る意思決定について、率直に現状を確かめ合う時間です。

今回のエピソードが重要なのは、いま私たちの前にある問いが小さくなるどころか、どんどん大きくなっているからです。もはや個別の不正トレンドだけを語っているわけではありません。銀行におけるAI、支払いの認証プロセス、銀行での顧客の異議申し立て対応、リアルタイムの意思決定、そしてそれらすべての根底にあるガバナンスの課題について話しています。不正対策、リスク管理、決済、コンプライアンス、あるいはデジタルバンキングに携わっているなら、これは「いつか来る未来」の話ではなく、「すでに今ここにある」現実の議論だということを、あなたはよくご存じのはずです。

そして、まさにそれこそが今回のエピソードの核心です。銀行における不正防止は、もはや事後的に不正行為を見つけ出すことだけではありません。重要なのは、より早い段階で、より良い文脈理解、より良いガバナンス、そしてチーム間のより良い連携をもって、より良い意思決定ができるかどうかという点です。そこにこそ大きな転換があります。私はその変化を、カンファレンスの廊下での会話からも、オペレーター同士のディスカッションからも感じ取っており、その方向に向けて舞台裏で取り組んできました。

このエピソードを個人的なものにしたかったのは、それもまた重要だと思っているからです。私は実務担当者の立場に座ってきました。取締役会の場で不正による損失をどう守るかを問われ、自分の金融機関が同業他社と比べてどうなのかを聞かれ、なぜあるルールが発動したのかを説明し、不完全な情報の中で正しい判断を下さなければならないというプレッシャーを背負うことがどういうことか、身をもって知っています。ですから、銀行におけるAIエージェントや、不正検知、あるいは責任あるAI活用について話すとき、私は決して遠くから眺めているわけではありません。現場の実務がまず最初に不正対策チームに押し寄せてくる、その感覚を知っている人間の視点から話しているのです。

その変化が実務において意味するところは次のとおりです。

  • 不正行為を単なる検知の問題として扱うのはやめて、ガバナンスと意思決定の問題として捉え直す必要があります。
  • 損失が確定してしまう前に、顧客承認に関わる不正や紛争、リアルタイムの取引リスクを評価するための、より優れた方法が必要です。
  • 銀行や信用組合が、当てずっぽうではなく事実に基づいて必要なリソースを主張できるように、オペレーター単位でより明確なベンチマークが必要です。
  • 不正対策、コンプライアンス、プロダクト、オペレーション、そして経営陣の間で、より強力な連携が必要です。なぜなら、この問題はどのチームか一つだけで解決できるものではないからです。

このエピソードでお届けする内容:

  • AI、KYC、支払い詐欺、システムレベルのリスクなどを含む、最近の Fraud Forward での対談における主要なテーマを振り返ります。
  • より明確なシグナル、より迅速な状況把握、そしてより実践的なガイダンスを提供し、フロード対策に取り組む人たちを支援するために、これまで水面下で取り組んできたこと。
  • なぜベンチマーキングが、地域銀行や信用組合にとって解決すべき最も重要な課題の一つになっているのか。
  • 現在、各種カンファレンスやオペレーターとの対話、業界イベント全般を通じて私が目にしていること。
  • なぜ詐欺、チャージバック、ファーストパーティ不正、そして規制が、業界がもはや無視できない形で一気にぶつかり合っているのかについての私なりの見解です。

このエピソードは次のような方におすすめです:

  • 銀行の不正防止業務に携わっており、業界が今後どの方向に向かうのかをより明確に知りたい方
  • 銀行業務、ガバナンス、トランザクションリスクにおけるAIについて、同業者レベルの視点を知りたい
  • 不正対策の業務を、予算・人員配置・戦略に関する経営層の議論と結びつけようとしている
  • 銀行における顧客の異議申し立て対応や、顧客承認を悪用した不正(オーソリゼーション・フラウド)について、より強い表現と適切な位置づけ・整理が必要です
  • より積極的で、防御力が高く、組織にとって一層有用な不正対策プログラムの構築に関心がある

このエピソードを気に入っていただけたら、ぜひ購読して、iTunes、Spotify、YouTube、または普段お使いのポッドキャストアプリでレビューをお願いします。番組を多くの方に知ってもらううえで本当に助けになります。

銀行における不正防止は、検知から判断・意思決定へとシフトしている

銀行業務は、もはや不正な取引を見つけることだけではありません。重要なのは、リアルタイムでどのように判断を下すか、その判断をどのように管理・統制するか、そして損失が発生する前に、適切なチームが本当に適切なシグナルを見極めているかどうかという点です。

率直に言えば、いま銀行が直面している多くの事柄は、もはや従来のモデルにはきれいに当てはまりません。銀行業務では、AIエージェントが意思決定に影響を与え始めています。支払い承認はますます複雑になっています。顧客の意図や操作、ファーストパーティによる行動がすべて混ざり合っているため、紛争処理はどんどん厄介になっています。それでもなぜか、不正対策チームには、あたかもすべてが一件の不審な取引から始まり一件で終わるかのように、これらの案件に対応することが求められています。私たちは、それでは不十分だと理解しています。

だからこそ、本当の問題は単なる銀行の不正検知ではありません。重要なのは、その金融機関が適切なガバナンスと状況把握、そして社内の足並みをそろえ、後から尻拭いをするのではなく、より早い段階で正しい判断を下せるかどうかという点なのです。

  • 不正行為はもはや単なる検知の問題ではありません。ガバナンスと意思決定の問題なのです。
  • 銀行業におけるAIの導入により、各機関は意思決定の方法とその記録のあり方を再考せざるを得なくなっている。
  • 銀行取引には、より速いアラートだけでなく、より強力な文脈情報が必要です。
  • 銀行業における責任あるAIは、金融機関がそのシステムの影響範囲を適切にガバナンスする準備ができているかどうかにかかっています。

私が取り組んできたことと、それが不正対策担当者にとって重要である理由

このエピソードの大部分は、水面下で進んでいる取り組みと、それが現場のオペレーションにとってなぜ重要なのかについてです。これを共有したかったのは、不正対策に携わる皆さんは、きれいに整えられたメッセージ以上のものに値すると考えているからです。プロダクトやフレームワークを作っている人たちが、本当にあなたと同じ立場にいることがどういうことかを理解しているのか、あなたには知る権利があります。

だからこそ、このエピソードは実務的な明確さに焦点を当てています。NACHA のウェビナーやブログでの不正監視アップデート、銀行向けプロダクトチームとの社内での取り組み、あるいは Five Minutes of Fraud や Monday Fraud Fix といったフォーマットなど、どの取り組みであっても、目標は一貫して同じです――ノイズを減らし、シグナルを増やすことです。

重要なのは、コンテンツのためのコンテンツを増やすことではありません。重要なのは、スピードと明確さが求められる環境において、不正対策、コンプライアンス、リスク管理のチームが、より迅速で十分な情報に基づいた意思決定を行えるよう支援することです。

  • 金融サービスにおけるAIガバナンスは、単なるポリシー上の言葉ではなく、実務で使われる言葉に落とし込まれなければなりません。
  • 銀行コンプライアンスとAIに関する議論は、実際の業務フローや具体的な管理・統制と直接結びついて初めて意味を持ちます。
  • 不正対策に携わる人たちには、会議や調査、戦略の議論で実際に使える、簡潔で重要な情報が詰まったコンテキストが必要です。
  • 銀行における信頼のインフラづくりは、日々現場で働いている人たちの声に耳を傾けることから始まります。

なぜベンチマーキングは銀行のリスク管理における欠落したレイヤーなのか

何年もの間、不正対策に携わる人たちは、一見シンプルに聞こえるものの、実際にはとても難しい問いに答えることを求められてきました。「私たちは同業他社と比べてどうなのか?」という問いです。そして実のところ、ほとんどの場合、私たちは明確な答えを持てていませんでした。それは、正しい問いを立ててこなかったからではなく、信頼できる、現場のオペレーターが作り上げた「真実の拠り所」となるデータ源がなかったからです。そのことが、新しいアナリストの採用を正当化しようとするときや、不正による損失を経営陣に説明するとき、あるいはチームに本当に必要なテクノロジー導入の必要性を訴えるときに、大きな問題となるのです。

だからこそ、ベンチマークは単なるレポート作成ではなく、銀行のリスク管理の一部なのです。自社の不正被害額や人員体制、ツールが同規模・同業他社と比べてどうなのかを把握していなければ、必要な前提となる文脈なしに戦略的な議論に臨むことになります。そして、それでは答えを求められる立場のあなたにとって、非常に厳しい状況になってしまいます。

だからこそ、このエピソードでは、このベンチマーキングの取り組みが何を解決しようとしているのかについて時間を割いて話しました。スポンサー向けの飾りではありません。ソリューションありきの偏った話でもありません。実際にオペレーションの意思決定に使えるリアルなデータ――それこそが、詐欺対策チームに本当に必要なものだからです。

  • 地域の銀行や信用組合は、実際の戦略的な議論で活用できる、同業他社との比較に基づいた不正対策のベンチマークを必要としています。
  • より優れたベンチマーキングは、人員配置、テクノロジー投資、およびリスク評価に関する意思決定を支援します。
  • 銀行業における不正防止は、各機関が損失、管理体制、プログラムの成熟度を文脈とあわせて比較できるようになることで、より強化されます。
  • オペレーター主導のベンチマーキングは、ベンダーが作り上げたストーリーよりも優れた意思決定支援を実現します。

詐欺、チャージバック、そしてファーストパーティ不正が衝突し始めている

これまでは、不正対策チームは「お客様が本当に承認した取引なのか?」という、ある意味とてもシンプルな問いに頼ることができました。しかし今では、その問いだけでは十分とは言えません。

詐欺の被害者は、その詐欺師が本物だと本気で信じているがゆえに支払いを送ってしまうことがあります。顧客が、自分が承知のうえで行った取引に異議を唱える場合もあります。まったく正当な購入に対してチャージバックを申し立てる人もいるかもしれません。書面上では、これらの状況はとてもよく似て見えます。しかし、それらが意味するところは同じではなく、そこから物事は厄介になり始めるのです。

そしてこれは、銀行における顧客の紛争解決にとって重要です。というのも、従来の枠組みは、物事の線引きが今よりずっと明確だった時代を前提に作られているからです。今はそうではありません。詐欺、不正行為、操作、そして顧客の意図が、すべて入り混じっています。だからこそ、金融機関がより良い判断を下したいのであれば、一歩引いて全体の文脈を見渡し、実際に何が起きたのかを理解するための、より強力な手立てが必要なのです。

  • 顧客承認を悪用した詐欺により、詐欺対策チームや紛争処理チームにとって新たなグレーゾーンが生まれています。
  • 銀行は単純な確認モデルを超えて、行動パターンや文脈に基づく分析へと移行する必要があります。
  • 銀行の不正検知では、顧客に対して行われる詐欺だけでなく、顧客が関与させられている詐欺も考慮しなければなりません。
  • 銀行のトランザクションガバナンスは、意図や操作、不正行為をより正確に扱えるように進化していく必要があります。

規制は依然として実務の現実に追いついていない

不正行為は急速に変化しています。しかし、責任範囲や予防策、説明責任をめぐる多くの枠組みは、いまだにその変化に追いついていません。これは深刻な問題です。詐欺が別の場所で始まり、他のチャネルを通じて加速し、最後の段階でようやく銀行に関わった場合であっても、金融機関は依然として金銭的責任を負う「最後の砦」として扱われているのです。

それによって、不正対策チームは非常に厳しい立場に追い込まれています。期待値はどんどん高くなる一方で、許容できる損失はますます小さくなっています。しかし、不正の全体的な流れをコントロールできる範囲はいまだに限られたままです。そして正直なところ、これこそが銀行における不正防止を、もはや単独のテーマとして語ることができない最も明確な理由の一つです。不正防止は、AI、コンプライアンス、紛争解決、そしてエコシステム全体の中で誰がどこまで責任を負うのか、といったより大きな議論の一部でなければなりません。

本当の問題は、不正が共有されているかどうかではありません。それはすでに分かっています。本当の問題は、業界がついに「本来なら不正を防止できていた地点」に責任をきちんと結びつける準備ができているかどうかという点なのです。

  • 金融機関はいまだに、銀行の外で始まる詐欺に起因する損失を負担し続けています。
  • 銀行におけるAIとコンプライアンスは、責任の分担に関するより広範な議論の一部でなければなりません。
  • 決済認証の枠組みと顧客への払い戻しモデルは、今や大きな圧力にさらされています。
  • 不正対策チームは、すべての手段を自分たちでコントロールできないまま、システム上の問題を解決することを求められています。

今回のエピソードのテーマは「モメンタム(勢い)」です。これまでどんな議論が行われてきたのか、ようやく何が見え始めているのか、そしてこれから何を作り上げていく必要があるのか、という話でもあります。業界が今必要としているのは、あいまいな問題意識を増やすことではありません。より良いシグナル、より強固なコラボレーション、そして現場レベルで、詐欺対策チームが実際に直面していることについて、もっと率直に語り合うことが求められています。Fraud Forward という番組が向かっているのは、まさにその方向であり、私がこの番組に課している基準も、そこへ向けて前進し続けることなのです。

Episode transcript
A blonde woman in a black blazer smiles slightly against a purple background.
Hailey Windham
00:01
What is up, fraud fighters? Today's episode is just me and you. This is the first solo episode since we made the move to Fraud Forward. And honestly, it just felt right, you know, to pause for a second and talk mano a mano. You know, no guests, no back and forth, just a real check-in of where we've been, what I've been up to, and where we're going next. So let's get into it. Since January, we've had some incredible conversations on the podcast. And what I love about the lineup is that we're not just talking in theory. It's real operators talking about what's actually breaking. And of course we kicked things off with the first Fraud Forward episode with Jen Lamont, Karen Boyer, and Angela Diaz, where we got real about fraud trends and what to actually do about them. Then we've had, you know, Kyle Caldwell from The Clearing House come on, where we were breaking down fraud across the payment life cycle because fraud doesn't start at the rail and it definitely doesn't end there. And of course we had Frank McKenna come on. We talked about fraud not being a solo problem, but more of a systems problem. Steve Linderman was on, where we talked about KYC, that it really isn't broken, but we just keep asking it to do something it was never supposed to do. And I'll be honest, some of these topics used to intimidate me as a community banker, right? But that's what this show is about. It's stepping into conversations that we have to be having, especially when it comes to agentic banking, AI making decisions, and now AI actually moving money. That episode with Hens Demar, that one really should wake everyone up because we're not asking if this is happening anymore. We're asking if we're ready for it. And across every single one of these conversations, one theme that kept showing up is that we don't have a fraud detection problem. We have a governance and decisioning problem. And that shift, that's Fraud Forward. So now I wanna talk about what we've been building.
A blonde woman in a black blazer smiles slightly against a purple background.
Hailey Windham
02:14
You know, behind the scenes. So like what I've been up to since joining Sardine. And, you know, for me, joining Sardine, it wasn't about, you know, really a job change, but it was like we both had this non-negotiable mission alignment. From day one, you know, we agreed, if I'm going to do this, I need to be able to advocate for community banks and credit unions. You know, I want to be in the room with product and I want to tell them what I experienced as a practitioner, all the shortcomings of solutions that I'd used in the past, and I need to be able to bring the real voice of fraud fighters into what's getting built. And Sardine has fully embraced that, truly. So here's what that looked like. We did a NACHA webinar with FIS where, this one's important because there was a lot of noise in the industry around the NACHA fraud monitoring updates. And what we focused on was simple. Let's remove the confusion. Let's remove the fear. Let's talk about what it actually means operationally, because this isn't like a brand new obligation. It's just a maturity check. It's about understanding your originators, monitoring behavior changes, moving beyond batch reviews into real signal-based monitoring. And it didn't stop there. Your girl also put out a pretty awesome blog, if I do say so myself, where I broke it down even further because this is one of those moments where clarity matters more than ever. I've also been spending a lot of time internally with the banking team, and I'll just say this, the talent that's coming in right now is real. Like, we're talking people who understand fraud, people who've sat in the seat, people who know what it feels like to defend decisions to leadership and regulators. And that matters because that perspective is getting built directly into this product. Now let's talk about the, of course, Five Minutes of Fraud with Hailey. If you've missed those, you truly are missing out. It happens on Friday afternoons usually, but it's where I give about a five-and-a-half-minute, I know I try to keep it under five minutes, but you guys, I just get so excited, clearly like as I'm doing right now. But it's where I really am able to...
A blonde woman in a black blazer smiles slightly against a purple background.
Hailey Windham
04:37
Just have that real talk real fast. You know, what's happening, why it matters, and what you should be thinking about. No overproduction, although that intro and outro is fire, if I do say so myself. No filler, but it's just signal. We also just launched the Monday Fraud Fix newsletter. Same idea, but different format. You know, this isn't about content. It's about signal, just like I mentioned before. It's talking about what made me pause this week, what's worth your time, what fraud fighters are actually seeing right now. Of course, we also do a shout-out for Featured Fraud Fighter. That is a segment that is so important to me. And the reason why is because I know how busy you are. Truly, as a fraud practitioner, I've sat in those seats. I know what it's like to truly wish like, hey, can somebody just summarize this for me? And yeah, we have AI and we can, you know, plug it into the LLMs, but come on, they do not have the personality that I do. Don't you want it coming from me? So that's the whole purpose behind it. And you know, if I can help you connect one dot faster, it's worth it. Moving on, talking obviously about conferences and community. I've been out with, you know, a lot of you lately talking ICBA Live, Carolinas Credit Union League, where I had a, you know, presentation on fraud risk assessments and how to build one. Really diving into the math of that, which I think is honestly something that needs to be spoken about more because too often we're just kind of handed a blank template and say, you know, go forth and do your risk assessment. Yeah, but like, is it my opinion? Because I've got some opinions if you want them, but if we need to back it up with facts, how do we figure in that math? How do we do it accurately where we can back up the statements that we're making? So that was one that was obviously near and dear to me and I'll be able to present that a couple more times this year. So I'm really excited about that. And then we've got some more conferences coming up. Fraud Fight Club is like, I think it's like less than 10 days away now. We have a Safeguard coming up, which is at the beginning of May. I'll also be at the IAFCI in Connecticut.
A blonde woman in a black blazer smiles slightly against a purple background.
Hailey Windham
06:51
Right after Safeguard, where I'll be presenting on fraud trends with Karen Boyer. So if you're gonna be there, I am so glad and I can't wait to connect with you. But you know, there's one thing that like literally everywhere I go, I'm hearing the same thing. We are all trying to solve the same problems, but we're doing it in silos. And that's the gap. And it's one that I care deeply about fixing. And I think that we're getting there. We as an industry truly are embracing the power of collaboration and what can be done when we combine our knowledge and our information and our insights. So this was a great tee-up, if I do say so myself in my outline of what I wanna talk about next. Speaking about collaboration and insights and learning from your peers of what's going on, I wanna talk about what's coming because I can't tell you how excited I am for this. This is one of those things that I pitched to Sardine originally when we were talking about the possibility of a role for me here. And one of those things was I want to do some benchmarking. It's something that's needed. It's something that I, as a practitioner, I struggled with because, you know, I've sat in a boardroom and I've been asked, how do we compare to our peers? And what was I supposed to say? Like, I can phone a friend and I can find out from like three credit unions that are in our area. But if you're wanting like industry standard, where do we sit with our fraud losses? I didn't have that. I needed to be able to provide that information. And then the only way to do that was seriously like a phone tree. So, hey, I know this is kind of weird, but could you tell me what your fraud losses are? And hey, let's be granular with it. Like what are your check fraud losses specifically? What tools and systems do you have in place to help prevent that? Because those are things that we can also use again in that risk assessment. So all of it kind of ties back in together. But so you guys already know that this is a problem, right? But this is information that's missing because we don't really know how we compare to our peers, right? That's the point I was trying to make, is that we don't really know how we compare. But this benchmarking survey is built specifically for credit unions, community banks, real fraud programs.
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Hailey Windham
09:09
That are really under like five billion, if I'm being honest. And it's not sponsored fluff. How many times have we gotten a benchmarking report that it's basically the results that the solution provider needed it to be in order to say that that's why you should buy their product? That's not what we need. Also, because how do you have benchmarking if you didn't ask me to participate in it? And I know you didn't ask ABC and DEF Credit Union. So like, where are you getting these numbers from? So that's not what this is. This instead, and it's not even solution-driven bias. That's the other beauty. We'll have these other solution providers that'll say, hey, we work with check fraud or we work with this or that. And so they're gonna give you stats that are specific to those things and not really something that's tangible that you can take back to your organization to really have an educated response for how are we comparing to our peers. What more do we need to do? How do we need to allocate resources? What percentage of budget goes to technology, goes to capacity, goes to solutions, goes to education? And so being able to do that, I think it's really important because that is the difference with this benchmarking survey. It's operator-built data for operator decisions. And this is something that I've literally wanted for years. I've cultivated the questions from the last at least seven years of things that I needed answered in a fraud report or something that I wish I could tell my C-suite, hey, this is what we're doing. And so anyways, we're finally doing it. More to come on when that will be released, but it is very soon and I am just honestly beside myself because it is one of those things that when it finally comes through and you're able to see the results, I think it's gonna help so many fraud programs not only advocate for, we need resources because here's another credit union that's a billion and a half in assets and they have 10 employees dedicated to fraud. We have two. All I'm asking for is a new analyst. Like that's a result that you need in order to help advocate for what's missing in your program. Same thing with solutions. Hey, this credit union has this, this, and this. We don't even have the bare minimum of what they have.
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Hailey Windham
11:33
Maybe we can look to see this is something that we can do better. Also, it's looking to see, our losses comparatively, we're doing really good. So maybe there's something that we can fix and we can share with another department, a business unit owner. So this is not like the results are not to say, hey, C-suite, be afraid because we're coming after your budget. That's not it at all. This is showing how we can be more proactive and how we can really perform well comparatively to our peers. So that is, I think that's enough teasing it up. Again, I'm just a big cheerleader for it because it's something that I needed in my fraud fight and something that I think that you guys will find valuable as well. Okay, the next thing that I wanna talk about that's coming up is, guys, I don't know if you noticed or not, but like this is episode 96. We are four away from the 100th episode and this one's gonna be special. We're bringing together voices from across the industry for a live town hall conversation. That's right, it will be live and it's gonna be on LinkedIn, obviously, or maybe YouTube and then we'll link it on LinkedIn anyways. More information to come on that. But what I think is important to call out is that it's not just one perspective. We're talking about different roles, different experiences, different opinions, because that's what it takes to actually move this conversation forward. I really think that you guys are gonna be so impressed with who I have coming on. Some we've met before and some we're just getting to know. You guys, I think truly magic is gonna be created in episode 100. So stay tuned. Obviously we're like four or five weeks away. It's either gonna be, I'll be honest, because I'm traveling that first week of May. So if it's not May 6th, it's gonna be May 13th. But just tentatively put that on your calendars. More to come soon, but trust me, you will want to be there. Okay. Now, it wouldn't be a solo episode if I didn't do the daily fraud news with Hailey, right? This is our headline section, I guess, or like our news media section, so pretend this is our newsroom, right? Because I actually want to talk about a couple of articles that I saw, and I will definitely link them in the show notes. But...
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Hailey Windham
13:59
Let's get into a story that I think perfectly captures where we're at right now in fraud. And it's not about a new scam, it's not about a new tool, it's about a shift. There's a recent article from CU Today, it's a credit union newsletter that comes out, talking about how scams, chargebacks, and first-party fraud are all starting to blur together. And we know this is not something that we're just seeing, right? We're all living in this. You know, for years, fraud strategies were built on one core assumption. If something looks suspicious, all we got to do is call a customer, right? Because that's it. It's a simple fix. Just call a customer, ask them, hey, did you participate? Okay, great. We'll let it go through. But that's not, it's not that simple anymore, right? So that assumption doesn't work because today's customer might be a scam victim who believes the fraudster is legitimate, confused about what actually happened, or if we're being honest about the day in which we live today, sometimes they're intentionally gaming the system. I know, we don't want to say that out loud, but it happens. And this is where things get messy, right? Because now we're dealing with what the article calls consumer-engaged fraud, which basically means the customer's involved in the transaction. But the intent behind it, that's where everything breaks down. Think about it, you know, a scam victim authorizes a payment, a customer disputes a transaction they actually made, someone files a chargeback knowing full well it was legitimate. From an operational standpoint, those can look identical, right? And that's the real risk here because our systems, and honestly, a lot of processors, come on, we're speaking truth on this podcast, were built for a world where the customer was in control. But now, the customer might be the victim, the risk, or somewhere in between. And here's the part that should make every fraud team pause. If we keep relying on customer confirmation as our source of truth, we're going to keep missing scams, paying out bad claims, and reinforcing behaviors that are actually increasing fraud losses. So what does this mean for us? It means we have to shift from, did the customer authorize this, to what actually happened here. That means behavioral analytics, transaction context,
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Hailey Windham
16:20
Understanding manipulation versus intent. Because fraud today isn't just happening to the customer, it's increasingly happening with the customer. And if we don't adapt to that shift, credit unions and honestly the entire industry are going to pay the price. Okay, this next one is talking about regulation. This article is titled, Stop Harmful Credit Union Regulation, focused on fraud and it was written by Scott Simpson, who is the president and CEO of America's Credit Unions. And I want to, you know, spend a little bit more time on this one because there's a lot here to unpack. So what the article is saying is at its core, fraud has evolved fast. You know, credit unions are investing heavily to keep up, but regulation isn't evolving at the same pace. And in some cases, it's actually making things harder. We know this. The article walks through that evolution though, you know, from landlines and AOL scams to AI-driven fraud, deepfakes, synthetic identities, large-scale automated attacks. And we all know that's not an exaggeration. So where this, you know, really hits in my take is that I, what I think is getting really interesting is that this isn't just a credit union versus regulation conversation. This is like a who-owns-fraud conversation because right now we're still operating in a model where the financial institution is the last stop and therefore they are the one that absorbs the loss. Even when the scam started on social media, the conversation happened over telecom and the payment moved through a third-party app and that's the disconnect. The article calls out in a really important way that we don't have a modern liability framework and that's the truth. But what we have today is essentially whoever is closest to the money, that's who pays, and not who had the opportunity to prevent this. And those are very different things. When we think about even like check warranties, it's like who was in the best possible position to identify fraud? And that's where UCC guidelines work, but that's where we're missing it here on these APP, authorized push payment frauds, or debit card Reg E things.
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Hailey Windham
18:44
So what does this mean for fraud teams? Let's bring it back to the fraud fighter, the one who's listening on this call, the one who cares about this issue. Because this is what I see that's what's happening, right? Our expectations are increasing, the loss tolerance is decreasing and control over the full fraud chain is still limited. Which means you're being asked to solve a problem without owning all the levers. And that's not sustainable. The article also talks about trust, and I think that's something that we don't say enough. Credit unions and community banks are still the most trusted players in the system, not because of marketing, but because of experience. Because when something goes wrong, people expect you to help them, and most of the time you do, even when it's not technically your responsibility. But here's where I want to push the conversation forward a little more, because I don't think the answer is less regulation. I think the answer is better alignment of responsibility. We need shared accountability across the fraud chain, incentives for prevention, not just reimbursement, and recognition of proactive controls. Because right now, we reward institutions for cleaning up fraud more than we reward them for preventing it. And that has to change. So if I had to boil this article down into one sentence, fraud has become a shared problem, but we're still treating it like a single-player game. And until that shifts, we're gonna keep seeing rising losses, frustrated fraud teams, and gaps that fraudsters will continue to exploit. And honestly, this ties back to everything we've been talking about on this show, better signals, better decisioning, and most importantly, better collaboration across the ecosystem because fraud doesn't respect silos and neither can we. So in closing, right, if there's one thing I want you to take away from this episode, it's this. Fraud is evolving faster than ever, but we don't have to solve it alone. At Sardine, we're building what we're building and what I'm focused on...
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Hailey Windham
21:03
Is helping financial institutions move from that reactive detection to real-time informed decisioning. You know, powered by better data, better signals, and shared intelligence across the industry. So if you're a fraud fighter trying to make better decisions, defend your program, or just feel a little alone in this fight, let's connect. Because this next phase of fraud, we're not just reacting to it, we're building what comes next. And so with that, of course, stay vigilant, stay informed, and keep moving fraud forward.