#11856 min
FRAUDFORWARD
#118IAFCI, parte 3: Fraude Bust Out e tendências atuais
56 min
Olá, combatentes da fraude! Sejam bem-vindos de volta ao Fraud Forward!
Trago-vos mais novidades diretamente da IAFCI, em Nashville. Conversei com especialistas no combate à fraude, executivos bancários e responsáveis pelas forças de segurança para uma ronda rápida de opiniões sobre o rumo que a fraude está a tomar. Tenho feito a mesma pergunta a todas as pessoas com quem me sento: se tivesse de descrever a fraude em 2026 numa só palavra, qual seria? As respostas variaram entre «em alta» e «explosiva», passando por «complexa» e «em evolução». Por vezes, não foi possível resumir a fraude a uma única palavra. Sinceramente, todas se aplicam.
Houve tantas conversas excelentes esta semana que não couberam em um único episódio. Mal couberam em dois. Por isso, este episódio traz uma série dinâmica de conversas que abordam desde fraudes do tipo bust-out até a prevenção de fraudes contra idosos, esquemas em concessionárias e os rumos da própria IAFCI sob uma nova liderança. Cada uma dessas conversas me deixou algo que quero compartilhar diretamente com vocês. Elas não tratam apenas do que estamos enfrentando, mas também de como podemos superar os desafios crescentes em nossa comunidade, por meio das ferramentas, da colaboração e das parcerias cada vez mais fortes entre as autoridades policiais e o setor bancário.
Vamos ao que interessa.
O que você vai ouvir neste episódio:
- Por que a fraude do tipo bust-out está sendo considerada um tema muito relevante no momento. Como essas quadrilhas estão deixando a Califórnia e a Flórida à medida que as autoridades intensificam o combate a esse tipo de crime.
- Como fraudes em financiamentos de veículos, fraudes cometidas pelo próprio solicitante e declarações falsas de renda estão ocorrendo em conjunto. Por que recorrer a dados de consórcios e a indícios de fraude nos dados das solicitações é mais importante do que confiar apenas em relatórios de crédito.
- Como concessionárias que praticamente não existem estão financiando carros que nunca foram realmente entregues.
- Por que o comprometimento de e-mails corporativos ainda é uma das principais preocupações no setor bancário comercial e como o hábito de parar, ligar e confirmar pode impedi-lo de imediato.
- A criação de uma plataforma de prevenção a fraudes começou pela compreensão direta do problema, por meio da mudança para comunidades residenciais para idosos.
- Uma nova forma de pensar a educação sobre golpes como um problema de mudança de comportamento, e não apenas de conscientização.
- Por que as tendências de fraude com cheques continuam sendo uma séria preocupação para os programas antifraude dos bancos comunitários, mesmo com os fraudadores direcionando cada vez mais ataques de fraude com IA a instituições menores.
- Como a colaboração entre bancos e autoridades policiais por meio dos grupos de trabalho do setor da IAFCI está transformando desconhecidos nas pessoas para quem você liga quando um caso precisa avançar rapidamente.
- O que vem pela frente para a própria IAFCI, incluindo novas parcerias em políticas e regulamentação contra fraudes e a meta de alcançar 10.000 membros até o fim do mandato atual.
Você deveria ouvir este episódio se:
- Trabalha com financiamento de veículos, financiamento de concessionárias ou detecção de fraudes de primeira parte e quer conhecer exemplos reais e atuais de fraude do tipo bust-out.
- Trabalham na área de banca comercial e querem relembrar como a prática de interromper, ligar e confirmar continua sendo eficaz contra o comprometimento de e-mails corporativos.
- Preocupam-se com a prevenção de fraudes contra idosos e querem saber como uma abordagem foi desenvolvida com base em pesquisas presenciais e diretas.
- Lidera a área de fraude ou risco em um banco comunitário e busca uma perspectiva sobre as tendências de fraude com cheques e os ataques de fraude direcionados por IA que afetam instituições menores.
- Acredita que a colaboração entre as autoridades policiais e os bancos é subestimada e quer exemplos reais de como isso funciona na prática.
- Quer um episódio dinâmico, com respostas de uma só palavra, mas que ainda assim lhe deixe ensinamentos práticos e realmente úteis.
Notas do episódio
Fraude subordinada à área de cobranças e um caso de fraude numa concessionária
Monica White, gestora de fraude e cobranças na Florida Credit Union, onde a área de fraude está integrada na estrutura de cobranças, apresentou argumentos sólidos a favor deste modelo. Os créditos abatidos como incobráveis nem sempre resultam apenas de empréstimos de má qualidade ou de decisões erradas. Muitos decorrem de fraude cometida pelo próprio cliente, identidades sintéticas ou informações falsas num pedido de crédito. Manter as áreas de fraude e cobranças interligadas, mesmo que não façam parte da mesma equipa, permite detetar situações que passariam despercebidas numa estrutura totalmente compartimentada. Monica também me explicou um esquema de fraude em concessionários com o qual a sua instituição está a lidar: a remoção de ónus sobre títulos de propriedade de veículos que foram financiados, mas nunca chegaram a ser entregues, por vezes envolvendo concessionários que praticamente não existem. Como as autoridades policiais costumam tratar estes casos como questões cíveis, o esquema passa despercebido de uma forma que não aconteceria com uma fraude mais evidente. O seu conselho para qualquer profissional de combate à fraude foi simples: saia da sua zona de conforto e converse com pessoas com quem normalmente não falaria.
Comprometimento de e-mail corporativo e a ligação de cinco minutos que o impede
Jeff Taylor trabalha na área de fraude bancária comercial e disse-me que a fraude por comprometimento de e-mail empresarial continua a ser algo que vê todos os dias, a par de um aumento das tomadas de controlo de contas no segmento empresarial. A solução que propõe é simples e fácil de repetir: parar, ligar e confirmar. Antes de transferir dinheiro, ligue de volta ao solicitante através de um número que já conhece e em que confia; assim, poderá travar de imediato a maioria das tentativas de fraude por comprometimento de e-mail empresarial. Jeff contou que percorre as regiões onde o seu banco opera para ajudar clientes empresariais a implementar este controlo, com resultados reais e mensuráveis: transações bloqueadas e dinheiro efetivamente poupado. A palavra que escolheu para 2026 foi «complexo», uma vez que a IA e os grandes modelos de linguagem já produzem e-mails falsificados de fornecedores suficientemente convincentes para enganar até quem deveria estar mais atento. Sugeriu uma verificação simples baseada no bom senso: consulte o código de identificação bancária e o número da conta indicados num pedido de pagamento e pergunte-se se faz realmente sentido que o banco desse fornecedor esteja localizado onde está.
Desenvolvendo o SilverShield de dentro das comunidades residenciais para idosos
Alec Glassman é o fundador e CEO da SilverShield, uma plataforma antifraude criada especificamente para ajudar a proteger os idosos. Passou dois meses a viver numa comunidade para reformados na Florida e duas semanas numa comunidade para idosos e de vida assistida numa zona rural do Ohio, apenas para compreender as pessoas que procurava ajudar. Contou-me que quase tudo o que inicialmente pressupunha sobre o problema se revelou errado, e essa experiência reformulou completamente o produto. Quanto à conferência em si, ficou impressionado com a enorme diversidade de pessoas presentes na sala: investigadores de cooperativas de crédito e bancos, juntamente com representantes do HHS, dos Serviços Secretos e investigadores federais, estaduais e municipais, todos a trabalhar em conjunto. É realmente difícil, para quem está fora deste meio, compreender algo que ele disse. A palavra que escolheu foi «evolução», e o seu conselho final foi «empatia». A forma como abordamos as vítimas determina diretamente se conseguimos realmente ajudá-las.
Fraude de abandono e fraude de primeira parte no financiamento de veículos
Jen Lamont trabalha no setor bancário há 21 anos, mas acaba de chegar à IAFCI. Recentemente, deixou de atuar diretamente na área para assumir uma função ligada à tecnologia, passando a combater fraudes especificamente no financiamento automóvel. As tendências que mais tem observado atualmente são a fraude do tipo «bust-out», a fraude primária e a declaração falsa de rendimentos, sendo esta última a mais relevante. A sua organização deixou de depender fortemente dos relatórios de crédito e passou a recorrer a dados de consórcios e de pedidos de financiamento, especificamente para detetar anomalias que o histórico de crédito, por si só, não revela. Neste momento, o seu foco está na colaboração, na partilha de informações e nos dados de consórcios, uma vez que nenhuma instituição consegue resolver estes problemas sozinha.
Por que as quadrilhas de fraude bust-out continuam se deslocando
A fraude do tipo bust-out é um dos problemas mais persistentes deste setor, num eterno jogo do gato e do rato. À medida que a fiscalização melhora em focos conhecidos, como a Califórnia e a Flórida, os grupos criminosos simplesmente se deslocam para o centro do país, em vez de desaparecerem. A crescente participação em grupos do setor, como a Auto Finance Coalition, é uma das poucas iniciativas que realmente estão a fazer a diferença, juntamente com o esforço de levar as organizações a reconhecer e definir o problema com clareza suficiente para poderem agir. Auto Finance Coalition, Fraude Bancária, BSA/AML e Combate ao Branqueamento de Capitais, Bust-Out e Identidades Sintéticas, Fraude Cibernética, Criptomoedas, Tráfico de Seres Humanos, Grupo de Trabalho sobre Fraude Hipotecária, Crime Organizado no Retalho, Burlas e Exploração Financeira, e Clonagem de Cartões e Ataques a Terminais de Pagamento. Esta é a lista completa dos grupos da IAFCI que trabalham em conjunto. Scott Ellefson quer lembrar-lhe que, se sente que é a única pessoa responsável pela fraude na sua organização, não está só.
Scott Anchin sobre como os bancos comunitários estão recuperando o atraso rapidamente
Scott Anchin é vice-presidente sénior de Iniciativas Estratégicas e Políticas na Independent Community Bankers of America. A fraude e os esquemas fraudulentos estão no centro das suas atuais prioridades, pois atingem os bancos comunitários precisamente no seu principal ponto forte: as relações com as comunidades. A fraude com cheques continua a ser um problema significativo e persistente. E não irá desaparecer simplesmente porque o volume de cheques está a diminuir, uma vez que os autores de fraudes perceberam que o valor médio de cada cheque aumenta à medida que o volume diminui. Anchin também confirmou algo de que suspeito há algum tempo: os bancos comunitários, que antes eram, em grande medida, ignorados pelos autores de fraudes em favor de instituições maiores, estão agora a ser alvo dos mesmos ataques sofisticados e impulsionados por IA que todas as outras instituições. Quando mencionei um episódio recente que gravei com a Linker Finance sobre a integração digital de clientes, salientou que os bancos comunitários tendem a adotar novas tecnologias de prevenção de fraude de forma ponderada e estratégica, o que está em sintonia com o caráter próximo e orientado para as relações que já caracteriza os seus processos de integração. Disse-me ainda que a ICBA e a IAFCI acabaram de publicar um guia elaborado em conjunto, intitulado Partnership Framework for Mutual Success, disponível em ICBA.org, destinado a ajudar os bancos comunitários e as autoridades policiais a estabelecer verdadeiras parcerias.
Tratar a prevenção de golpes como uma mudança de comportamento, e não apenas como conscientização
Heather Noss fundou a Scam Ready Family depois de o próprio pai ter sido vítima de uma fraude de quase 200 mil dólares, que começou com uma janela pop-up de scareware no computador dele. Ela conseguiu recuperar todo o dinheiro, em grande parte porque detetou rapidamente o que estava a acontecer e dedicou vários dias de trabalho intenso ao caso. A sua experiência profissional é na gestão da mudança e na mudança comportamental, e não nas áreas financeira ou policial, o que molda toda a sua abordagem. O seu principal argumento é que explicar a alguém os factos sobre fraudes não muda o seu comportamento, tal como dizer a alguém para fazer exercício não faz com que essa pessoa o faça. Por isso, criou o scamreadyfamily.com, com simulações gratuitas em vídeo geradas por IA que explicam a manipulação psicológica à medida que esta ocorre em fraudes reais. Nas suas palestras presenciais, também leva as pessoas a praticar como desligar uma chamada com um burlão sob pressão simulada, para que essa reação já esteja interiorizada quando enfrentarem uma situação de stress real. A palavra que escolheu foi «falsidade», ou engano, e levantou uma questão que eu ainda não tinha considerado plenamente: agora que tantos dos antigos sinais de legitimidade desapareceram, aprender a identificar uma fonte em que se possa realmente confiar tornou-se, por si só, uma competência que precisa de ser ensinada.
O que vem a seguir para a IAFCI
Chris Gergni tornou-se diretor executivo da IAFCI há seis meses, após quase 29 anos de experiência na gestão de organizações sem fins lucrativos e de eventos. O que mais me chamou a atenção foi a forma tão pessoal como descreveu a organização. Muitas pessoas aderem a associações porque se importam com a causa, mas, segundo ele, esta vai mais longe, porque o que está em jogo é profundamente pessoal. É ouvir falar da avó, da mãe solteira ou da vítima idosa que realmente existe por trás de cada caso.
Steve Lenderman tomou posse na noite anterior à nossa conversa como futuro presidente internacional da IAFCI, para um mandato que começa oficialmente em 1º de janeiro de 2027. Ele é membro há 21 anos, incluindo oito como presidente de uma seção regional. Contou-me que entrou para a organização originalmente por indicação de outra pessoa, e é justamente por isso que hoje considera parte de sua responsabilidade formar a próxima geração de profissionais de combate à fraude. Ele também falou sobre algo de que eu já tinha ouvido falar no início daquela semana: um membro nas Carolinas que recorreu a um contato da IAFCI para falar com alguém da polícia de Nova York e providenciar, no mesmo dia, uma visita para verificar o bem-estar de uma vítima de fraude. Steve chamou isso de cortesia profissional — uma relação de confiança e colaboração que existe aqui justamente porque, no fim das contas, todos estão trabalhando pelo mesmo objetivo.
Principais conclusões
- A fraude do tipo bust-out continua a migrar geograficamente à medida que a fiscalização melhora em áreas críticas conhecidas, tornando-se um desafio persistente, semelhante ao jogo de acertar a toupeira.
- A fraude em financiamentos de veículos envolve cada vez mais fraudes de primeira parte e declarações falsas de renda, e os dados de consórcios estão superando os relatórios de crédito isolados na detecção.
- Concessionárias com aparência legítima podem cometer fraudes reais, incluindo a remoção fraudulenta de gravames de títulos de propriedade vinculados a veículos que nunca foram entregues.
- O comprometimento de e-mails corporativos continua sendo altamente evitável com o simples hábito de parar, ligar e confirmar.
- A prevenção de fraudes contra idosos é mais eficaz quando se baseia em pesquisas diretas e em primeira mão sobre como os idosos realmente vivenciam os golpes.
- A educação sobre golpes é mais eficaz quando promove uma mudança de comportamento praticada do que quando se limita a uma palestra pontual de conscientização.
- As fraudes com cheques estão aumentando, pois, embora haja menos cheques em circulação, eles envolvem valores mais altos, e os ataques de fraude direcionados por IA agora também estão atingindo bancos comunitários, não apenas grandes instituições.
- A colaboração entre bancos e autoridades policiais por meio de redes como a IAFCI frequentemente resulta na resolução rápida e efetiva de casos.
Conclusão final
Se há algo que estas conversas deixaram claro, é que a fraude em 2026 não pode ser definida por uma única palavra, mas por todas elas ao mesmo tempo: em alta, complexa e em constante evolução. Cada pessoa com quem conversei esta semana está a combater uma vertente diferente da mesma batalha, seja uma rede de fraude de crédito que muda discretamente de estado, seja um simples telefonema que trava de imediato uma tentativa de comprometimento de e-mail empresarial. O fio condutor de tudo isto é o mesmo que a IAFCI continua a demonstrar que funciona: nenhum de nós deve enfrentar esta luta sozinho.
Recursos e links do episódio
Conecte-se com Steve Lendermen | LinkedIn
Diretor de Prevenção a Fraudes na iSolved
Conecte-se com Scott Anchin | LinkedIn
Vice-presidente sênior de Iniciativas Estratégicas e Políticas do ICBA
Conecte-se com Jen Lamont | LinkedIn
Estrategista de fraudes na Point Predictive
Conecte-se com Jeff Taylor | LinkedIn
Vice-presidente sênior e diretor de perícia em fraudes no Regions Bank
Conecte-se com Heather Noss | LinkedIn
Fundadora da Scam Ready Family
Scam Ready Family
Conecte-se com Scott Ellefson | LinkedIn
Gerente de Consultoria de Fraudes na Point Predictive
Conecte-se com Chris Gergeni | LinkedIn
Diretor executivo da IAFCI
Conecte-se com Alec Glassman | LinkedIn
CEO e fundador da SilverShield
Conecte-se com Monica White | LinkedIn
Gerente de Fraudes e Cobranças na Florida Credit Union
Conecte-se com Hailey Windham, CFCS | LinkedIn
Apresentadora do podcast Fraud Forward
Líder da comunidade bancária na Sardine
Especialista certificada em crimes financeiros (CFCS)
Destaque do setor de cooperativas de crédito em 2023, CU Magazine
Prêmio de Melhoria Contínua, SAFE Federal Credit Union, 2023
Uma das 20 melhores profissionais com menos de 40 anos, The Sumter Item, 2022
Guests
Episode transcript
Hailey Windham
00:05
So, I'm here not only with Steve Lendermen, the man, the myth, the legend, right? But the incoming international president of IAFCI. Steve, thank you so much for joining us.
Steve Lendermen
00:14
Oh, thanks for having me. Yeah, we did a thing last night where we were sworn in as officers for our term starting uh January 1 of 2027.
Hailey Windham
00:21
Yeah.
Steve Lendermen
00:22
Uh feels like it's so far away, but it'll be here faster than we know it. And uh our new election board members are already starting to work together. Looking forward to the transition uh with the existing board. So uh it's been fun.
Hailey Windham
00:34
Scott Anchin, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Um I really appreciate you joining me.
Scott Anchin
00:40
Absolutely. It's good to be here.
Hailey Windham
00:41
Hi Jen.
Jen Lamont
00:42
Well, hello.
Hailey Windham
00:43
It's been a while since you've been on the podcast.
Jen Lamont
00:45
Like like a whole week.
Hailey Windham
00:46
Like a whole week.
Jen Lamont
00:47
Yeah. Maybe eight days.
Hailey Windham
00:48
I'm glad to have, eight days. It might be 14 by the time this episode releases. So hey, um you have been blessed. Um, I have been blessed honestly.
Hailey Windham
00:56
I am here with one of my absolute favorite fraud fighters, Jeff Taylor. Um, Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.
Jeff Taylor
01:02
Absolutely. Thank you, Hailey.
Hailey Windham
01:04
Of course,
Hailey Windham
01:05
Heather, thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Heather Noss
01:07
Thanks for having me,
Hailey Windham
01:09
Scott.
Scott Ellefson
01:10
Yes.
Hailey Windham
01:10
Thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Scott Ellefson
01:12
Absolutely. A pleasure.
Hailey Windham
01:13
All right, Chris, thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Chris Gergeni
01:15
Well, thank you for having me.
Hailey Windham
01:16
I am so excited to get to talk to you. You are one of those people that I feel like you're this this constant for us all. It's like, thank God that we have Chris.
Hailey Windham
01:25
All right, Alec. So, thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Alec Glassman
01:29
Thanks so much for having me,
Hailey Windham
01:30
Monica. Thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Monica White
01:33
Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me.
Hailey Windham
01:34
Of course. So, I'd love it if you could introduce yourself to the audience, just who you are and and what it is that you do.
Monica White
01:40
Sure. Um, so I'm Monica White. I am from Florida, Gainesville, Florida. Go Gators. Um, I uh am a fraud manager, collections manager at Florida Credit Union. So, um, we have fraud under the umbrella of collections, which is pretty unique. Um, the fraud is where the passion is, though.
Hailey Windham
01:55
Yeah. Yeah. I, um, remember meeting you, um, at the Florida crypto conference, and we spoke about that, uh, exact thing. Where, um, I had never seen, uh, fraud being under collections. But, it makes so much sense uh, to where, you know, you kind of already have those connections and know where to look for things for those uh, kind of asset recovery almost.
Monica White
02:17
Yeah.
Hailey Windham
02:18
Um but so excited to finally have you on the podcast. We'll definitely bring you back on for a longer form um episode. Obviously, we're here at the IAFCI Nashville um international conference. And what do you think of the conference so far?
Monica White
02:34
I love it. Um they're doing a really good job keeping us entertained uh with subjects that are like very good. Um I love how this organization has evolved over the years. So, it's almost a problem how many good classes they have because you can't go to all of them.
Hailey Windham
02:47
I have heard that multiple times. Where it's like if I could just duplicate myself so I can attend all of them. Um, I was even talking with uh Kathy Stokes with AARP and she was like, "Hailey, I just I I want to go to all of them. I I love it." So there is the it's like they really tried so hard this year to make sure that no matter what, we were leaving more informed than ever before. So that we can actually do something when we get back to our you know respected jobs.
Monica White
03:13
Yeah. Agreed. And they're they're doing a lot more uh networking events too which is really nice. Because we all know that's where the real ma magic happens, right?
Hailey Windham
03:19
100%. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So when you uh think about fraud for 2026 if you had one word to describe it what would you what would you use?
Monica White
03:28
Oof. Trending.
Hailey Windham
03:30
Yeah,
Monica White
03:31
Maybe. Um, not one word, but fraud as a service now, right? It's a whole economy. Um, it's really scary, but it's exciting. It's a little bit of job security.
Hailey Windham
03:41
Yes. Um, I I think the one thing that I like about it, beyond just the job security, is that it's it's never the same thing every day. Every day there's a new challenge, a new concept, a new trend like you said, where truly we have to stay on our P's and Q's, right? If we don't, then we've really put ourselves at a, in a vulnerable state.
Monica White
04:01
Yeah, we're already behind the ball. Um, and the fact that we have so many things in place that don't allow us to communicate as financial institutions, um, there's a lot of privacy laws um that are hard to navigate and the fraudsters don't have those roadblocks.
Hailey Windham
04:13
Yeah. Yeah. They they unfortunately don't have to follow the rules and regulations like we do.
Monica White
04:16
Right
Hailey Windham
04:18
They just get to pivot on a dime.
Monica White
04:19
Right.
Hailey Windham
04:20
So unfair. Um so is there any particular trend that you're seeing um increasing more this year than than you have in the past?
Monica White
04:28
Oof, um. Right now one thing we're struggling with um I'll speak to it a little bit on the collection side but it's fraud. Um is a lot of these dealerships are doing really dirty work. Um and there's no regulations uh there's nobody you know knocking on their door to tell them that they're doing wrong. Um, law enforcement sees it as a civil matter. Um, but there's so much criminal activity happening in these dealerships. Maybe the dealerships don't even exist. Yeah, we're dealing with that a lot. Um, we're dealing with a lot of uh like lean stripping uh for vehicles that never existed that we financed, gave them money out to, and now we're looking for the car and it's never it they just used the VIN number, right? So, um we're having a lot of issues with just legitimate businesses doing shady things.
Hailey Windham
05:13
Yeah, that's so unfortunate. It's like we already have to struggle with the fake businesses that are popping up. And now to know that there's a legitimate one that's just taking advantage. It's just uh
Monica White
05:25
Yeah. And it is fraud. And and and people don't look at it like that because we're the big bank, and we we have the money, and we can eat the loss, and um and it's just not it's not fair, which is a weird thing to say. Um
Hailey Windham
05:37
I just want to stomp my feet and.
Monica White
05:39
Yeah. Yeah. We've got the boots to do it.
Hailey Windham
05:41
Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Monica White
05:41
Um, I think, you know, the the fraud being under collections is nice because all of these charge offs are not just bad loans. They weren't just bad decisions. Um, there's a lot of people that are lying on their applications or um, presenting false information, synthetic identities. And so, I think a lot of institutions are missing out on fraud and collections being, if they're not going to be under the same manager or the same umbrella, that's fine. But there needs to be that connection, that relationship that happens. And I think that's a huge disconnect in financial institutions.
Hailey Windham
06:12
Yeah. So true. I I love that perspective. It's one that I uh hadn't considered before, but one that I definitely want to bring you back on to to kind of dive into a bit further for the audience because I know they're going to find it intriguing as well. Um but for the sake of this podcast, because I know that there's probably another uh session that's going to let out soon and they're going to walk in front of this camera. Because there's no wherewithal when we come out of a out of a session. Um, if there's anything uh any advice you would give to uh an investigator or someone at a a bank that's watching now, what what would that be?
Monica White
06:44
My advice would be to get outside of your comfort zone. Um, talk to people you wouldn't normally talk to. You you have no idea what type of conversation might happen and where that conversation might lead you to solve a case. I actually have a buddy, I'll make it quick, was in a presentation yesterday morning. Um, at the end of the presentation, they put the uh suspect up on the the screen and my buddy, a detective goes, "That's my guy." He was looking for the guy they were able to solve a case with just from being in a class. So, this is outside of his comfort zone. He's not the kind of person who's going to sit in this chair, um or just go mingle with strangers. But, um he you know, you have to do that if you want to get things done.
Hailey Windham
07:19
So, true. The networking aspect is something that is so um under underappreciated I guess especially in the executive uh level. They they don't realize how much it does for the fraud team. It may be different for the C suite when they go to conference and they network. Maybe they're not benefiting the way that we are. But as investigators, fraud fighters, we we truly need this networking in order to be effective.
Monica White
07:44
Yeah. I mean, so much is proprietary, right? So that's why they're probably not wanting to do the networking. But with us, we have to share. And it's not proprietary. We we're going to do this together.
Hailey Windham
07:53
No one wants to be number one in fraud .
Monica White
07:56
Yeah. I mean, and if the fun thing about this though is if they're doing if you have a company, an agency, a credit union that's doing really well in this space, they also want you to do really well in this space.
Hailey Windham
08:05
Yes, it's so so true. So, thank you so much for joining me today again. I'm going to definitely have you back on and just really appreciate your time.
Monica White
08:13
Yeah, anytime, Hailey. Thank you for having me.
Hailey Windham
08:14
So, we're doing the fraud fighter soundcheck uh session right now, which is I want to ask you, what fraud trend has your attention right now?
Jeff Taylor
08:22
It's still business email compromise.
Hailey Windham
08:23
Yeah,
Jeff Taylor
08:23
I mean I see that every day. Uh we're seeing some introduction additional introduction of account takeover. But you know I work on the commercial side. So it's mostly businesses that I'm working with but it's still it's so easily to be prevented and if on the business email compromise side it's just one of those things that if you ask a few simple questions and you stop and as we say stop call and confirm. If you'll pick up the phone and call the requester at a number that you know and confirm the request is legitimate, you can literally stop business email compromise. But we're just reluctant to do that for some reason.
Hailey Windham
08:59
And that's such a powerful tool that you guys have the stop uh confirm.
Jeff Taylor
09:04
Stop, call, and confirm.
Hailey Windham
09:05
Stop, call, and confirm. I love
Jeff Taylor
09:06
Stop, drop, and roll.
Hailey Windham
09:07
I love it. I love it. So, it's one thing that like you're in that's what your organization is doing right now to help prevent this and and you're seeing some some benefits in this, right?
Jeff Taylor
09:16
Absolutely. So I I travel across our footprint. Uh talking to clients uh at length. Helping them to understand ways that they can uh put controls in place on their side of the payment transactions to try to help prevent some of these things from occurring. And and we do see positive results from it. From clients who tell us we put the control in place. We are holding our people accountable for stop calling and confirming and it's working. We have stopped transactions. We know that we have saved ourselves some money and we feel more comfortable now working online and creating ACH and wire transactions because we know we're confirming those with those legitimate sources.
Hailey Windham
10:00
That is such a it's such a positive thing that can be done that you don't even have to have additional monetary resources to implement something like that. And it's it's simple, but it's something that truly makes the world of difference.
Jeff Taylor
10:12
Yep. And I think I've said this on a podcast before with you, but I always say, Hailey, it's a five minute phone call.
Hailey Windham
10:18
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
10:19
And it is a whole lot easier to explain why I'm calling to verify and confirm this transaction than it is to go back and explain a half a million dollar loss.
Hailey Windham
10:28
It's so true. Love that. So, if you had one word to describe fraud in 2026, what word would it be?
Jeff Taylor
10:34
Oh gosh. Uh I think complex.
Hailey Windham
10:38
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
10:38
I think it's getting more and more complex. Um, we're seeing fraudsters who are leveraging artificial intelligence. They're leveraging the large language models to create uh really succinct emails that are uh they're able to penetrate vendors email platforms through social engineering. And and so a lot of these emails look like they're coming from the legitimate vendor. They've got the legitimate vendor's URL on the back end of the email address, but they've spoofed that email address somehow. They've created a a new user or something to make it look more and more legitimate and and they're just getting better at what they do. And so for us, it requires for us and our for our clients requires more vigilance, more patience really to think about, does this really sound right? You know, is this why would my company or why would my vendor be doing business with a financial institution that's headquartered across the country? And and thinking through those things. Something as simple as Googling the, I shouldn't say Google. Can you cut that out?
Hailey Windham
11:46
I can cut that out.
Jeff Taylor
11:47
Using your search engine to search the routing and transit and account number. And so if you look at that routing and transit and account number and it's a a financial institution that's located overseas or located in a different part of the country,
Hailey Windham
12:03
Right.
Jeff Taylor
12:04
Does that really make sense that a vendor domiciled in the southeast, as an example, or in the state of Tennessee, would bank with someone in California?
Hailey Windham
12:13
Yeah,
Jeff Taylor
12:13
Probably not. And so it would make you pause and think through that transaction before you actually submit that payment.
Hailey Windham
12:21
Yep. I was having a conversation with someone earlier and we were talking about deep fakes um and you know how do we really protect ourselves and one of the things I was saying especially for you know when we think about even us as fraud fighters like how do we make sure we're not going to fall victim to you know a scam or things like that and one of the things I said is you know trying not to be too distracted, we're so busy.
Jeff Taylor
12:42
Right.
Hailey Windham
12:42
And and yes we are embracing AI and we're it's making us more efficient but it's also giving us more work.
Jeff Taylor
12:47
Right.
Hailey Windham
12:49
And so I you know I myself was uh you know I almost clicked on a link but it was because I thought it was something from the school. I was just trying to do it quickly you know for for my kids. And then I was like oh wait hold up that's not what I'm supposed to do. But I it could have been you know a problem for me because I I was so distracted and just trying to get through something quickly.
Jeff Taylor
13:09
I'm so glad my voice was in your head somewhere to say stop and and pause just a moment before you do that. You know it it's happened to me. I I've gotten invitations um that were I thought maybe an invitation to a friend's birthday party.
Hailey Windham
13:24
Yep.
Jeff Taylor
13:24
And it came from his wife and I thought, well, I could ask him, but now I'm afraid it was a surprise for him.
Hailey Windham
13:30
Oh yeah.
Jeff Taylor
13:31
So, uh fortunately I checked with her at church and she said, "Nope, it was a scam." They got into my email and and distributed that invitation to to everybody that was in my email address or address book.
Hailey Windham
13:46
Yeah. Okay, final question. Uh, again, here at the conference, is there any advice or um any words of wisdom you'd give to a fraud fighter who maybe hasn't uh been able to join the IAFCI or be a part of uh this conference or just in general? What uh advice would you give to a fraud fighter?
Jeff Taylor
14:03
I think you've got to get involved.
Hailey Windham
14:04
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
14:05
Um I I would take advantage of these sessions here. If you're here at this conference, listen.
Hailey Windham
14:12
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
14:12
Take good notes. Do things that will help you improve. It's about being yourself, educating yourself, and learning more about all the different things that these experts have to say to you and and tell you about. And then go to other conferences, go to these situations, listen to Hailey's podcast. I mean, the the folks that you have on the podcast are are industry veterans and they know what they know what to do. They know how to do it and they know how to communicate the different ways to to investigate. And so I just think you've got to take advantage of these situations and make sure that you are learning.
Hailey Windham
14:51
So true. Jeff, thank you so much for joining me today.
Jeff Taylor
14:54
Love you. You're so great. Appreciate you so much.
Hailey Windham
14:57
Appreciate you.
Jeff Taylor
14:57
Bye.
Hailey Windham
14:58
I would love it if you could just tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do.
Alec Glassman
15:02
Yeah. So, I'm Alec Glassman. I'm the founder and CEO of SilverShield. We're an anti-scam platform. So, we help empower people to protect themselves from scams and fraud. And then we help the institutions serving folks better help them as well understand what's going on with their member or client base.
Hailey Windham
15:18
I love that. I'd love it if you could tell them a little bit more about the the story for how you were building it and what what you did to really get the true insights. Um because I thought that was just so interesting.
Alec Glassman
15:29
Yeah. So when we started um we wanted to make sure that we could be really really effective for older adults because obviously scams are a huge issue for older adults. And so I actually lived for 2 months in a retirement community in Florida and then for 2 weeks in a senior living community like independent and assisted living in rural Ohio to spend time with the people that we were trying to really help.
Hailey Windham
15:51
Yeah.
Alec Glassman
15:51
And it was interesting because basically everything that I thought about this problem and how to address it, I very very quickly learned was completely wrong and backwards. And it's really informed how we've been able to build such an awesome product now uh going forward.
Hailey Windham
16:08
I think that it is such a differentiator between you and a lot of uh companies I've talked to before. You truly immersed yourself into understanding the problems of a generation that we don't necessarily understand. Um, and because they grew up a lot differently than we did. And so being able to truly like just surround yourself with them, understand, you know, why it is they even accept calls or respond to things the way they do, I I think is commendable. But honestly, it just is another thing that kind of puts that little validation check mark whenever, you know, we're talking to you. Um, anyways, I I'm so thankful that you agreed to come on the podcast. Obviously, we're here at the IAFCI International Conference in Nashville. What are your thoughts so far?
Alec Glassman
16:50
It it's been amazing. Um, I think that I totally underestimated the breadth of people that would be here. Um, man, I've been hanging out with investigators from credit unions and banks, but I was with people who help with HH uh with uh HHS, and I was with people who were in Secret Service, and I was with people who were federal investigators, people who were city and state investigators. Um, so it's really been wild to get all these different perspectives and actually super cool because I don't think people realize on the outside how much folks in this world work with each other to help people.
Hailey Windham
17:32
Yeah.
Alec Glassman
17:33
Uh, and that is so um it's it's motivating. Um, it's it's a tough subject fraud. Um, but it's hard to leave here without some serious optimism seeing these different groups work together so effectively.
Hailey Windham
17:48
Yeah, I I totally agree. I think the first time I ever experienced IAFCI, I was like, "Wait a minute, that's the cop I've been trying to get a hold of forever." And then we finally get in touch and then it's like, "Oh, now we're best buds. We communicate openly about what investigations need, you know, help on from either side." And then it's like, "Hey," he calls me and he goes, "Hey, do you have know somebody at another bank or credit union?" And it's like, yeah. And then the same thing happens and he connects me with another county that I need.
Alec Glassman
18:13
Well, well, everyone has the same goal, right?
Hailey Windham
18:15
Yeah. 100%.
Alec Glassman
18:16
Everyone wants to help people protect themselves and help get the bad guys. Um and I think again it's hard from the outside to see it as collaboration happens, but I think groups like IAFCI make it possible.
Hailey Windham
18:30
Yeah.
Alec Glassman
18:31
And then what's cool is what you're talking about, which is like you meet someone here and that carries forward and compounds going forward and and that's how you make real change.
Hailey Windham
18:39
Yeah. So true. So I'd love it if you could describe uh fraud using one word. What would that be?
Alec Glassman
18:45
Evolving.
Hailey Windham
18:46
Oh, that's a great one. I think it's uh constantly evolving, right? Where if we don't try our best to keep up um we're we never will. Um also making sure that we understand truly uh the different vectors of where it's attacking us from. And then also the victim uh perspective, where are we um making sure that we consider how one person would respond versus another? And it's just a great um a great word that you've used at, you know, evolving. So again, we are here at the IAFCI. I can't thank you enough for for joining me. Is there any um advice or thoughts that you would give to investigators or bankers listening today?
Alec Glassman
19:27
I think that the key to all of this is empathy.
Hailey Windham
19:31
Yes.
Alec Glassman
19:33
I think that the more empathetic that you can be in your approach when you're talking to victims and helping victims is how you can connect with people to make a really big difference and ultimately effectively fight fraud.
Hailey Windham
19:49
I love that so much. Alec, thank you again so much for joining me. We've got a class that's letting out, so a few people Yeah, this is walking and talking real real life.
Alec Glassman
19:58
We we you weren't messing around. We are at the IAFCI conference. So, you know, we're really smack in the middle of it here.
Hailey Windham
20:03
Yeah. Right there. Right there. So, thank you again so much. Glad to have you on.
Alec Glassman
20:06
Appreciate your time.
Hailey Windham
20:07
So, we are here at the IFCI international uh conference in Nashville. Love to know what your thoughts are on the conference.
Jen Lamont
20:13
Oh my gosh, the content of this conference has been absolutely incredible. The only hard part is the fact that you can't choose one thing. So you're missing out on something that you're really interested in because you've you've had to make a choice
Hailey Windham
20:26
Or you're doing a podcast.
Jen Lamont
20:27
Or you're doing a podcast. And then you know then trying to keep up with work while we're here, And the balance of conferences in general are um somewhat of a challenge sometimes but uh it's it's worth it.
Hailey Windham
20:36
Yeah. Yeah. So um I would uh love to know also you are a new member of IAFCI.
Jen Lamont
20:43
I am.
Hailey Windham
20:44
Okay. You've been in banking for how long?
Jen Lamont
20:48
21 years
Hailey Windham
20:49
And you're just now finding the IAFCI. But we're not going to shame you or joke for that, but I will say what makes this one special compared to other associations do you think?
Jen Lamont
21:00
That is a wonderful question and something actually I was having a conversation with a law enforcement officer this morning. Um we were kind of talking about the difference between the different associations that we're a part of. Um not to not to downgrade any other conference or anything like that, but this one just feels different. I think the the mix of individuals here, it's really a split between law enforcement and the banking sector. And that collaboration is so powerful in so many of the investigations that we do. We need friends in this industry.
Hailey Windham
21:28
Yeah.
Jen Lamont
21:29
So, I think that's what makes it a little bit different is the the networking. It's not big enough to um to get lost. It's small enough to where you can still connect with people. I mean, I guess I mean there's like a thousand people here. So, I mean it is a really huge conference, but I feel like the way that it's set up is is perfect for networking.
Hailey Windham
21:47
So true. So true. So, is there any particular trend um that you're seeing maybe spike in 2026 when it comes to fraud?
Jen Lamont
21:55
You know, now that my role has changed, I'm no longer in the practitioner role. My my answer would have probably been different four or five months ago. I probably would have focused more on scams and exploitation and things like that. Um I am now in a role where I'm in the tech world, fighting fraud from a from a different seat. So, what I'm seeing in that industry though, and it's specific to um like the auto lending space, is a lot of bust out fraud, first-party fraud, um income misrepresentation. I would say probably income misrepresentation is one of the things we're seeing the most of.
Hailey Windham
22:25
Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything that, uh you're seeing organizations do to, you know, prevent or mitigate some of these things?
Jen Lamont
22:33
Uh well, I can speak to what my organization is doing and um that is really leaning on consortium data.
Hailey Windham
22:39
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Lamont
22:40
And not not relying on credit reports as much anymore and relying on application data to detect those those anomalies.
Hailey Windham
22:47
Okay. I love that. Um so clearly uh we're going to have a session that releases soon and then there will be people walking through. So I won't keep you uh too much longer, but I'd love to know if you had um you know I've actually asked you this question back in May, so it'll be great to um see how your uh answer changed.
Jen Lamont
23:03
The fact that you remember a question you asked me in May says a lot about you. Because I wouldn't remember.
Hailey Windham
23:09
Well, it it was at another conference, but uh let's see. So, if you had one word to describe fraud in 2026, what would it be?
Jen Lamont
23:17
I don't remember what I said in it. I do remember you asking me the question. One word to describe fraud. Um, explosive. Yeah.
Jen Lamont
23:30
It is exploding.
Hailey Windham
23:31
Yeah.
Jen Lamont
23:31
Um, and I think I I think we're we're not going to see that end anytime soon. And I think we I'm I'm excited though. The things that are like top of my mind right now are just collaboration, information, sharing, consortium data. It all leads back to us working together.
Hailey Windham
23:47
Yeah.
Jen Lamont
23:48
Sharing information, leaning on uh leaning on those things to to fight a battle that is is very uphill.
Hailey Windham
23:56
Yeah. I love that. Well, Jen, thank you so much again for joining me. I promised it wouldn't be more than 5 minutes, so I'm going to let you get back to the conference. Um, but thank you again for joining me on Fraud Forward live in person in Nashville.
Jen Lamont
24:07
The answer is always yes.
Hailey Windham
24:08
Thank you.
Hailey Windham
24:09
So, we are obviously here at the IAFCI and I'd love to first ask what do you think of the conference?
Heather Noss
24:14
Uh, it's great that it's my first time here. And it's a little uh broader coverage than what I usually learn or talk about. So, it's been very interesting to me.
Hailey Windham
24:23
I have always loved that about the IAFCI. It's a perfect blend, I think, of all things law enforcement, investigations, banking, um, industry, associations, kind of all coming together, just showing that that collaborative effort really does make a difference.
Heather Noss
24:38
Yeah. It's Yep. And great to talk to everybody.
Hailey Windham
24:41
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, you were telling me a little bit about um your your scam defense skills. I'd love it if you could tell tell the audience a little bit about that.
Heather Noss
24:49
Sure. So, my company is called Scam Ready Family. And I started this uh, I was inspired because my dad was the victim of quite a significant scam. Uh almost $200,000 in uh very typical I guess you know started with some scareware with a popup on his computer. I've heard this many times. Uh I actually ended up getting that all that money back for him. Um because I found out about it very quickly. Had some good coincidences and also because I uh busted my butt for intensely for several days in a row, but that's another story.
Hailey Windham
25:23
Yes.
Heather Noss
25:24
So, my background is more in change management. Uh and I also interested in behavior change. So, I know a uh a lot of people in the scam education realm uh come a lot from finance or law enforcement. And I think uh I bring a different perspective on how one might view the scam problem at least from the perspective of a regular person. So when I was looking for more materials for my dad, I was not finding the kind of education that I wanted for him and for myself because I was also learning about it. So one of the biggest I think principles and I see this as a change management problem. Of course you come from where you come from and you see it how you see it. Uh so I see the change is we uh went from a world where we could operate more or less normally in a digital world to one where we cannot. And we're bombarded constantly by scams and you know other frauds. And just you know it that takes some actual behavior change just on the part of regular people, right? So um in behavior change or change management there's no situation I challenge you to think of a situation where you uh could just tell someone about something and expect them to change or understand what you're talking about. So, some examples, uh you tell people that exercise is good for them. Do they exercise? No. You tell medical professionals to wash their hands. Do they always even do that? No. That's a big change management problem. Uh if you want someone to learn how to swim, do you give them a lecture and uh you know 10 points on how to swim or do you give them swim lessons, right? That's how you learn how to swim. So my uh so what I have done uh with actually we talk about the benefits of AI it was the development of AI visual technology that allowed me to start doing the kind of videos and education that I want to do. So if you take a look scamreadyfamily.com uh they're all free. You can just click on them immediately. Uh I use AI to create actual simulations of scams in progress. But in a you know narrated way and pointing out the psychological attacks uh what's going on when someone's trying to scam you. So it's not always specific to the scam although the simulations show you what's Happening. But um it you know it's highlighting the psychological attack that's happening. And so my hope with those is one, whenever you see something, you remember it better. And then whenever I I haven't gotten too far in the videos, but in my in-person talks, I'm always looking to address a behavior, a behavior change that will help you with scams. So in my main talk, um, we actually practice how you get off the phone. I hear a lot like, "Oh, you should have a script to get off the phone." Well, we actually practice it and you know in a in a calm situation so that when you're under that stress, you actually remember what to do. So, uh please take a look. I know I just told you about it and maybe and of course your audience too cuz I'm getting the word out, but please take a look. Like,
Hailey Windham
28:33
For sure. So, I'll say um that there's a third option with learning how to swim and it's the one my parents took and that's where they just threw me in the water, which I feel is how we we operate as uh fraud fighters where we truly are just kind of thrown in there, right? Um so, knowing that there is a resource like this one that we can direct people to that can kind of immerse them into uh this this training or or kind of like this this realm with the videos of like being able to see the scenario play out. Um, I I think that's a phenomenal resource and I thank you so much for for sharing that with us. I I have another fraud question for you.
Heather Noss
29:08
Um, sure.
Hailey Windham
29:09
If you um would, could describe fraud or scams in 2026 with one word, what would it be?
Heather Noss
29:15
Fakery.
Hailey Windham
29:16
Yeah.
Heather Noss
29:17
Or deception.
Hailey Windham
29:18
Yeah. Yeah. I I I think it's so true. Uh literally we we try and we struggle uh with just making sure that people are so trusting um in this world, but unfortunately the the fakers, the bad actors, they're getting really good.
Heather Noss
29:34
Yeah. And just learning, you know, one of my other um things I focus on is, you know, how do you find a source that you do trust. With is, which is so challenging now. That's another behavior that needs to be learned, right? Or because uh one of my friends who I make, you know, watch all my stuff uh and talked to her a lot about it. What she said, well, what was really um what she really learned, not just what the scams look like, is how much things have changed and how quickly. Because all of the signals you may have known before and thought you could rely on there, a lot of them are gone now. And so, what are the new things and how do I actually know what I'm trusting or not trusting? Things like that. Yeah.
Hailey Windham
30:19
Well, thank you again so much for joining me. I I so appreciate learning more about Scam Ready Family and we'll definitely be checking it out. We will include it in the uh show notes and if okay, I'll add it to my Fraud Fighter resources page.
Heather Noss
30:30
That would be amazing. No, it's so great to meet you. I'm a I'm a big listener and uh so this is a delight for me to be with you.
Hailey Windham
30:36
Well, thank you so much.
Heather Noss
30:37
All right. Thanks.
Hailey Windham
30:38
We're here at the IAFCI International Conference in Nashville. Uh what do you think of it so far?
Scott Ellefson
30:42
Oh, it's fantastic. I mean, I've been coming to these things for a lot longer than I'd like to say out loud.
Hailey Windham
30:48
It shows your age when you do that.
Scott Ellefson
30:49
Yeah. Exactly. Right. And if the gray hair is not a giveaway, then then it goes back a while. But, uh, I've been wanting to come to Nashville for many years, but it's been outstanding. It's you see the same group of people, you see those same friends that you made. Um, getting to follow their careers. It is outstanding.
Hailey Windham
31:07
I agree. I I love the the collaboration. But apart from that, it's this is the the one place that I'm like, these are my people, man.
Scott Ellefson
31:15
Yes.
Hailey Windham
31:16
Like everywhere I turn around, I I see different county, I see government agencies, I see bankers, I see credit unions, and I'm like, ah, I love you guys.
Scott Ellefson
31:25
Oh, absolutely. You know, that's it. We have all walks of life, right?
Hailey Windham
31:28
Yeah. Scott You know, whatever whatever money or fraud can be committed, you got them here. And the best part is just seeing that collaboration between law enforcement and private sector. I think sometimes there's this like adversarial notion of us versus them. Um, and this kind of breaks down that wall and it's just like it's important. It's like who you know, who you talk to, right? Phone a friend.
Hailey Windham
31:52
Right. So Scott, what is it that you do? Uh, just for perspective.
Scott Ellefson
31:56
Absolutely. So I work for Point Predictive and I'm a strategy consultant there. So, um I guess it was maybe uh just pre predestined that I would go work for Frank McKenna because I have known that man forever as well. Um so really just helping our clients solve their fraud problems with our products.
Hailey Windham
32:14
Yeah. So with those conversations that you're seeing, uh what's what's like a a trending, you know, fraud thing that's happening right now?
Scott Ellefson
32:22
Well, one that's always near and dear to my heart are like fraud bust out rings.
Hailey Windham
32:25
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
32:26
You know, I think that's become a real hot topic. We've put out quite a bit of writings on those on some of the work I've done on them. But uh they're just, you know, perpetual, never ending. They grow and it's kind of like whack-a-mole, too.
Hailey Windham
32:38
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
32:39
You know, sure, law enforcement is doing what they can, but fraudsters are always adapting. So, by the time they start cracking down, that ring's already shifted and pivoted to a new county, a new city. Um, and I think this is too where you can see this pattern. We're watching the pattern. it kind of started in those known areas and uh California and Florida. It's starting to move in the middle it's starting to move up. So yeah you know and those are challenging because how you know trying to get a bust out can be difficult
Hailey Windham
33:09
yeah so true
Scott Ellefson
33:10
So a lot of times it's too late by the time you find out
Hailey Windham
33:13
Yeah is there anything that institutions are doing now that that kind of helps with this problem with bust outs.
Scott Ellefson
33:18
Absolutely. Well besides the products that we can offer. Um that notwithstanding, I think um seeing a growth both in participation in industry groups like the auto finance coalition. Shout out to y'all there.
Hailey Windham
33:30
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
33:31
Um is that collaboration. Um and I think just communicating more about it. Like helping your organization understand what it is, what it looks like. So I think just right off the bat, like once you fence that in and acknowledge it's happening, what it looks like, now you can start saying, "Hey, what do we want to do about it?"
Hailey Windham
33:52
Yeah, I love that. And I love that you mentioned the industry working group for for the audience that's listening. These this is one of the ones that is part of the IAFCI. So I can see the the banner right there that tells me a list of all of them. So I'm going to read this now for you guys. But it's um the industry working groups. They've got the auto finance coalition which is what you just mentioned, bank fraud, BSA AML and anti-money laundering. uh bust out synthetic identities, cyber fraud, cryptocurrency, human trafficking, mortgage fraud task force, organized retail crime, scams and financial exploitation, and skimming and payment terminal attack. So I I agree these these working groups are like in comparison, so grateful that we have these. This is another way that if you're looking to get involved, again uh yeah I just had Steve Lindman on, and we talked about just the um you know the cost of being a member of IAFCI. And how you know it it's always been made a goal to keep it affordable for just the even the new investigator that comes on. And those industry groups right there just kind of prove that that it's worth the money.
Scott Ellefson
34:54
You are not alone. If you are your sole fraud person at your organization, come to us. You're not alone, you know, and you can I have learned. I am so grateful to for the mentors, Steve Lenderman.
Hailey Windham
35:08
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
35:09
Shout out to you too, my friend, because I can't I mean I I cut my teeth working with him and some of the old greats that have gone on to retirement. So, you know, you you know, and we love sharing that. I think that's what all of us have this like almost like inherent need to share our experiences where we our trials and tribulations. So,
Hailey Windham
35:32
Yeah, love that. Okay. Uh final question for you and I'll let you go. I know we've got busy schedules today. It's the last day of IAFCI. Um if you had one word to describe fraud for 2026, what would it be?
Scott Ellefson
35:43
Pernicious.
Hailey Windham
35:44
Oh, I need to get my Googler out for that.
Scott Ellefson
35:47
I know. Uh so there you go.
Hailey Windham
35:48
Is that a wordle or something? A word of the day.
Scott Ellefson
35:51
I it might I don't know but let's make it the word of the day. So everyone please use pernicious.
Hailey Windham
35:57
Find some way to use that today.
Scott Ellefson
35:58
Yeah. I I think that's it. It's uh just > it's not that the frauds are necessarily unique or different or leveraging. It was just more of it.
Hailey Windham
36:08
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
36:08
There's just more of it than I've ever seen. To the point where it can be almost overwhelming. And but and that's just proof in the pudding that now is not the time to take your foot off the gas. If you're in fraud prevention, fraud operations, push harder, push your organizations, you need the resources. Um it's cheaper to spend a little money and stop all that fraud up front than have to deal with it on the back end.
Hailey Windham
36:31
Yeah. So true. So true. Well, Scott, thank you again so much for joining me. I know I kind of just grabbed you while you were walking past, but I appreciate you joining me today. Scott E 36:39 Oh, absolutely. A pleasure. Hailey,
Hailey Windham
36:41
Can you uh just for the audience um again your name and uh where you work, what it is that you do? Scott A 36:46 Sure. Absolutely. So, my name is Scott Anchin. Uh I'm senior vice president strategic initiatives and policy at the Independent Community Bankers of America. And so, that's a really broad title.
Hailey Windham
36:55
It really is.
Scott Anchin
36:56
Uh but as we think about strategic initiatives, I think one of the chief strategic initiatives we have right now is helping community bankers to fight fraud and scams. Because fraud and scams, of course, not only do they hit the bottom line, but they affect community banks exactly in the place where they have their strongest advantage, which is those community relationships. So, fraud and scams affect those relationships.
Hailey Windham
37:19
Let me tell you, you are preaching to the choir. I fully believe that it's, you know, I think that the mission is so much different in in community banks where truly you're here and you were created for this one community who was like, "Hey, we kind of need financial services here." And I remember, you know, that's where I started my banking career was um actually at a community bank. I'm still a proud customer there and check in from time to time. Um, and just knowing the the connection that they have within the community and what work they do do to prevent fraud or at least try uh with the resources they have available and what they know about. Um, it's it's unmatched.
Scott Anchin
37:57
Yeah, absolutely. And I think they take that role very very seriously. It's very core to what they do. Uh, and it's great because they have opportunities, I think, to help customers uh when they may or are affected by fraud and scams that other institutions probably don't have. And so it's really gratifying to see that in action.
Hailey Windham
38:17
So true. So true. So in your role now um uh you know speaking with uh community banks, credit unions are thinking about strategy. Is there any uh you know fraud trend or or scam that's really become more prevalent in community banks?
Scott Anchin
38:30
Yeah. I think what's amazing is that we continue to see and this won't be news to your listeners but we continue to see check fraud uh as a significant problem. And we know that as the volumes of checks go down that are being used, the amount of each check is going up. And so of course fraudsters know that.
Hailey Windham
38:47
Of course
Scott Anchin
38:48
Uh and they go where the money is. So we continue to see check fraud uh really really be a significant concern. But along with that, which of course is a more legacy system, we're also seeing the rise of new more sophisticated uh fraud and scams just the same as larger institutions are seeing. So a lot of AI targeting and things like that. I think for a long time community banks were largely immune from those things.
Hailey Windham
39:13
Yes.
Scott Anchin
39:14
Uh because uh fraudsters and scammers would target the larger institutions. Uh but now they have the ability to target some of the smaller ones. So we see small community banks and mid-size community banks, large community banks affected by the exact same fraud and scams that everybody else is uh affected by.
Hailey Windham
39:32
Yeah. So true. Um I recently did a podcast episode with uh Linker Finance and they were talking about um you know just their approach to community banking and trying to help bring on like digital onboarding which is something that most community banks uh you know rightfully so are a little uh you know timid about. Because it does open so much so many opportunities and vulnerabilities um in their current processes to allow fraud in. Where they're not meaning to but when they're just trying to offer you know an additional convenient service. Um, are you also seeing, you know, that?
Scott Anchin
40:05
I think one of the great things that community banks do is when they open an account or they onboard someone to a new service, it's a very hands-on approach and so they really know the customer, they know their needs. Uh and that helps them to recognize situations where uh opening an account or something like that may be fraudulent. But what I do see uh is that community banks have taken a really intentional look at the technologies and services that are available right now. Yes. And they're adopting them in a very measured and strategic way, which I like.
Hailey Windham
40:38
Yes.
Scott Anchin
40:39
Uh I think part of thinking carefully about your fraud and uh scams posture is thinking holistically and strategically. So I do see adoption of these technologies in a sensible way.
Hailey Windham
40:51
Yeah, I love that so much. Um, again, as we are here at the IAFCI International Conference in Nashville, I'd love to know what your thoughts are on the IAFCI in general and then of course this conference.
Scott Anchin
41:03
Yeah, absolutely. So, a great organization. I mean, I think the the geological or the breath and scope is is such an advantage.
Hailey Windham
41:10
Yes.
Scott Anchin
41:11
And and I love that that really parallels what we see at ICBA with our members, who are spread out across the country. And that brings a lot of opportunity to talk about ways that the fraud and scam frauds and scams that they're seeing are the same and ways that they differ across uh geographic areas. So, so I think that's great. Uh I think that the focus of law enforcement now on investigating and prosecuting fraud and scams is a really positive thing. Uh and one of the things that we've done at ICBA is, we've worked really hard to help community banks to build those partnerships with law enforcement.
Hailey Windham
41:47
Yes.
Scott Anchin
41:48
And so we recently uh introduced a guide that we authored uh in collaboration with IAFCI which is our partnership framework for mutual success.
Hailey Windham
41:57
Okay.
Scott Anchin
41:58
Uh which community bankers and law enforcement uh individuals can download from our ICBA.org website. Uh and so this is a great opportunity to share uh the benefits of those partnerships, how those partnerships can work. Uh so really really happy to be here.
Hailey Windham
42:14
I love that and so glad that you're here too. Um obviously I reached out to you and I was like can we please chat in person, happy to meet you. Um last final question just so I can uh let you get back to the conference and because I'm pretty sure one's going to let out soon and then no one's going to see the camera and they won't be able to see us. Um, if you had one word to describe fraud for 2026, what would it be?
Scott Anchin
42:37
Interesting.
Hailey Windham
42:38
Ah,
Scott Anchin
42:39
Which actually wasn't my word, but that could be. I was just saying interesting to the question, but it, you know, it really is interesting because there's such, I think, a tension between an increase we see in now speed of transactions from instant payments, uh, from stable coins, things like that, uh, versus some of the fraud concerns that those bring. And that to me is an interesting tension because for a long time uh speedy payments were held up as being a significant advantage but I think we now see some of the cons.
Hailey Windham
43:10
Yeah.
Scott Anchin
43:10
But those you know relative to fraud and scams but those examples those advantages still exist. And so I think we have an interesting tension that folks are wrestling with right now and that will continue to be a challenge in 2026.
Hailey Windham
43:24
I love that. I love that so much. Um, sorry that I took your first word interesting and thought that was your word. Did you have another word you wanted to use?
Scott Anchin
43:31
No, that really worked out well because I had to come up with another word.
Hailey Windham
43:33
Oh, good. Wonderful. Well, I think uh you are exactly right. It's either it's very interesting always. Um, and the other thing is that it is always evolving. So, we have to stay curious, right? And we have to keep uh pushing forward, keep trying to learn from others. And so, that's one of the great reasons I was really happy to have you on to learn from your insights and just really appreciate you joining me today.
Scott Anchin
43:53
Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? Although you were closing, I actually did think of a second word. And I think it's policy progress. Two words, but maybe we can hyphenate those.
Hailey Windham
44:02
We can hyphenate it. Yeah.
Scott Anchin
44:03
Yeah. Because one of the things we're seeing is a lot of attention from regulators and members of Congress on doing what they can do from a legislative and regulatory perspective to stem the tide to the extent that they're able. And I think that that marks a significant shift uh relative to what we've seen in the past. So that's another thing I think on the horizon to look forward to which is really positive.
Hailey Windham
44:26
I love that so much. Thank you again so much for joining me.
Scott Anchin
44:28
Yeah, absolutely. Great to be here.
Hailey Windham
44:30
All right. So I'd love it if you could describe, you know, uh obviously well introduce yourself, you know, who you are and what it is that you do for the organization.
Chris Gergeni
44:36
My name is Chris Gergni. I'm the new as of six months ago last week executive director. Um I come from almost 29 years in nonprofit management, event management. Um anything to do with with events and nonprofits and membership organizations. That's what I've done pretty much my entire career.
Hailey Windham
44:53
Wow. And and so that's what you're doing now for us with the IAFCI.
Chris Gergeni
44:57
Correct. I I've run the office. I handle the the policies that the board sets forth and enact them and make sure everything gets done. Um I oversee our staff and our wonderful wonderful staff. I've got five amazing, highly talented ladies working for me that just make me look real good.
Hailey Windham
45:17
You know, I've had to interact with two or I got the pleasure of interacting with two of those ladies this week and I tell you, they do make you look good.
Chris Gergeni
45:24
They make anybody look good. They're so dedicated,
Hailey Windham
45:27
Phenomenal people. I just truly loved watching them. And you know, there was a time that I um as a vendor, you know, we had a name badge that there was something wrong with it. And I walked in, I said, "Hey, can I get this?" And she was like, "Yeah, right now." And it I mean it was instant. So I very grateful for for your your team and and for all that you do for all of us. I know that you're you're one of the ones that you know when we send that email it's it's Chris who's going to help uh respond. So I appreciate you
Chris Gergeni
45:51
100%. We're we're a membership organization first and if we don't have you all as members, we don't exist.
Hailey Windham
45:57
True.
Chris Gergeni
45:58
So our first and last focus is always on the members.
Hailey Windham
46:01
Love that. So um you know you've said you've you know had your career working with nonprofits. I' I'd love to know why the IAFCI?
Chris Gergeni
46:10
As I told the board when they were interviewing and hiring me and I've told others, I'm not mercenary. I have to find something I can truly believe in. I have to have something I can put my energy into. Um and and for me, law enforcement, fraud, and crime prevention are a natural fit.
Hailey Windham
46:27
Yeah.
Chris Gergeni
46:27
I've got three degrees in political science. Um that has always led me and a lot of family are in law enforcement and banking and everything that we as a group do and my my son last night at dinner said, "You know, Dad, this has been the best fit for you so far. It's totally up your alley. I don't see as soon as you told me about I know it was you."
Hailey Windham
46:48
I love that so much and and it's evident. You know, you can tell when someone's not passionate about what they do.
Chris Gergeni
46:52
Yes.
Hailey Windham
46:53
Um and and it's clear that I I'm glad you're here. I'll I'll just leave it at that. That's wonderful. So, um this will technically be your first IAFCI conference uh on our uh as our executive director, but what do you think of the conference here in Nashville?
Chris Gergeni
47:10
It's been excellent. Um things have considering all the major changes in the association in our in our new um community system, through higher logic and everything else, a new committee structure for this. We've really, most of you never see any of the problems in the background, other than maybe a name tag like you said that needed replaced. The things that did crop up we dealt with immediately. We got them deal done and behind us. We know they happened. It eats at me because I'm a bit of a perfectionist on that and always irritated if I miss something. But you never catch it all. And so the first couple days you're the duck. It look may look calm on the surface but you're kicking it for all you got below the water line. So,
Hailey Windham
47:51
Well, I tell you, I I've heard nothing but positive things uh from all of the attendees that I've spoken to. I know that I myself have also been very impressed. I was also very grateful to be able to come into the podcast lounge. Um so, I believe it was going to be four of us, but I think it turned into two of us, which works out just fine uh as well. Um it's been very busy. Lots of great conversations, lots of people just truly wanting to to give back and to share.
Chris Gergeni
48:15
This this organization is built off you know every organization you join it because you care but it goes deeper here and from what I'm seeing because it gets very personal. Whether it's the banking whether it's the the private sector or law enforcement because you see the impact day to day on you know granny or on a young couple or a single mom or or an elderly gentleman that's been defrauded have been lied to been mistreated abused. You know, the stories. You get the warm feelings from it, and that's a big part of the reward.
Hailey Windham
48:47
Yeah.
Chris Gergeni
48:47
For everyone in this organization and that's not going to go away anytime soon from what I can tell.
Hailey Windham
48:51
Yeah. I I don't think so either. I think um you know I'm I'm so grateful for for all that um you know Mark and Mike have given to this organization over the last several years. Um and and now you know we've got new leadership coming in which is exciting also. Um I I just think that you know there there there's only up from here. This this is just a you know we're on to the next path.
Chris Gergeni
49:13
We we are taking it to the next level.
Hailey Windham
49:14
Yeah.
Chris Gergeni
49:15
We're going to keep incorporating. We just today, literally today, launched our ICIC cryptocurrency certification. The first nine, eight or nine people received their certifications today during a in a small ceremony during the presentation. Um that's going to be going that's that's an absolutely earthshattering new change for the association. We just signed for the SAPTA certification agreement two days ago. We got more things in the works. We've got a lot more membership programs. We're focusing on education. We're definitely focusing on marketing because sometimes we're the best kept secret in the in the universe.
Hailey Windham
49:52
I agree. I agree. Once I found you guys, I was like, "Wait a minute. Why don't more people know? Why aren't banks uh utilizing that buy one get one and helping law enforcement and then making ways for them to be, you know, more friendlier?"
Chris Gergeni
50:05
100%.
Hailey Windham
50:06
Yeah. So, um, again, Chris, I I know that you've got to get back. You're a busy man. I appreciate you taking the time to to come on Fraud Forward with me and just talk about this great organization.
Chris Gergeni
50:16
I'm honored to be asked to do so. Thank you so much.
Hailey Windham
50:19
Absolutely. I've been able to see some of the interactions this week. Uh, I tell you what, uh, the conference is great, but the IAFCI, man, they know how to throw a party.
Steve Lendermen
50:28
Well, you know, I think Nashville helps a little bit. Um, you can definitely tell uh Broadway has some victims from last night, but uh, that's what we want. We want people networking, doing things, uh, you know, building those relationships that last forever, right? Those relationships build those connections and, uh, you know, when someone needs help or something. Um, you know, that's what we're most proud of is our directory, our membership who really does goes the extra mile.
Hailey Windham
50:49
Yeah. Yeah. So, I'd love to ask I've been asking, uh, throughout the week, you know, what's what's one of those favorite things about the IAFCI? Like why why do you feel so passionately about it to to literally now dedicate so much of your time?
Steve Lendermen
51:00
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I've been a member for 21 years now. Uh and so eight of those as a chapter president with Delaware Valley and then now this new journey as the international president. Um and so really draws me again is back to the the directory, the network, the relationships. Um you know I was brought in the association by somebody else, right? Um and my goal was to continue that tradition essentially of bringing new members in exposing IAFCI, right? We we all know we have to keep the next generation of fraud fighters going. Um and the association does that. Uh what we're really proud of as well is that we are a nonprofit, right? Uh and nothing against other associations, right? But we are the only nonprofit association here. So our mission is just a little different um than others. And we try to keep our our pricing at a great point, making accessible for you know um you know a brand new law enforcement officer or you know uh the head of the US Postal Inspection Service, right? We have every we have that kind of range here, right? So it's a it's it's for everybody and anybody.
Hailey Windham
51:56
Um, I was even uh privileged to talk to someone the other day and I'm hoping to have them on the podcast uh today before we close out, but where they literally used the the connections from an international and uh it was someone in South Carolina who found NYPD and they were able to do a welfare check on someone and then it was, you know, realizing now how much money has been taken from this person. And just the joy that that member from the Carolinas was expressing to me of like how how else would I have gotten someone at NYPD to literally pick up the phone and within 3 hours do a welfare check for me.
Steve Lendermen
52:30
Yeah, that's one of the things you call or an email, hey, I'm with IAFCI and uh you know, a lot of those those boundaries that tend to go down. Uh you know, we're not going to obviously um you know, violate any privacy laws, etc. But um there is a what I call professional courtesy, right? There's professional courtesy for those people to do things and and it's not just like financial crimes, right? There's the welfare of human being that is, you know, important. Uh, and so it's it's something that goes beyond just the association.
Hailey Windham
52:57
Yeah. Um, I've never been a part of a brotherhood, but I I feel like this is what that feels like.
Steve Lendermen
53:01
I say it's a personhood at this point, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But it it is that members here um you know, like any association, there is some turnover, right? But we we see once members get past year three of membership, they tend to stay for 10 to 15 years, right? And so that's something that's really unique um once they figure that out. So.
Hailey Windham
53:19
Yeah. Um so is there anything in particular that you are really excited about um when you take office January 1?
Steve Lendermen
53:27
Yeah. Um clearly you know Mark's done a great job the last four years as president, right? And so uh one of my backgrounds and things I really like to work with is technology, right? And so of course we're going to use those two letters AI is that yeah have to weave it in somewhere, right? And so um we all want to work smarter and work harder, right? As a nonprofit, we have an obligation um for to manage our finances and um you know, we just can't go hire 20 people on the staff, right? We have to be very manageable about our finance and so we can work smarter with some of these tools that are to help us out. And so, one thing I'm really looking forward to do is, you know, see how we can use AI to help us become more efficient in the office, more effective in the office.
Hailey Windham
54:03
Yes.
Steve Lendermen
54:04
Uh as well, and just to growing the membership, right? We have about 8,000 current members in the association. I would love to say by end of my term uh first two-year term hopefully we'll be at the 10,000 mark. That's that's one of my accomplish.
Hailey Windham
54:17
Same. Uh we we'll we'll work on this together. I think um I I've had the privilege this week to uh be a part of even the international board meeting and to see the the collaboration and honestly just the the willingness to help. Um it it's unlike anything I've ever experienced. And it's you know we've got presidents that are uh chapter presidents that are bankers. We've got some that are law enforcement and it's just a a breath of fresh air almost to to be surrounded by people who actually care and just want to give back.
Steve Lendermen
54:45
Yeah. It's not just we're a mix of public and private. That's it. Public and private big and small. It extends beyond traditional banking. It's we have government members. We have credit unions, fintex, cryptos, insurance, auto, right? It's all here. So that's one of the things that really makes us special as well.
Hailey Windham
55:00
Yeah. So true. Okay. So I I asked everyone and I'll ask you if you had one word to describe fraud in 2026, what would it be?
Steve Lendermen
55:09
Um ongoing increasing uh job security.
Hailey Windham
55:13
Steve, I said one. I said one word.
Steve Lendermen
55:15
Well, it's hard. It's hard. Um yeah, I think I'll use the word um beyond those. Um and not to terrifying. It's terrifying where it's going right now.
Hailey Windham
55:25
Yeah, 100%. Okay. Well, Steve, I know you have a very busy schedule. Um, I can't wait to see, you know, what the future of IAFCI looks like with you at the helm and I just appreciate everything you do and thanks again for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Steve Lendermen
55:37
Absolutely. Thanks for being here.
Hailey Windham
55:38
Of course.
Hailey Windham
55:44
Thanks for listening to Fraud Forward. Remember, every conversation, every connection, and every insight moves our industry one step closer to stronger fraud defenses. If today's episode sparked an idea, share it with your team or tag me on LinkedIn. I love hearing how you're moving fraud forward in your own organization. Until next time, stay curious, stay resilient, keep moving fraud forward.
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