#11856 min
不正対策に取り組む皆さん、こんにちは！「Fraud Forward」へようこそ！
ナッシュビルで開催されているIAFCIの会場から、さらにお届けします。詐欺対策の専門家や銀行幹部、法執行機関のリーダーたちに、詐欺が今後どこへ向かうのか、テンポよく話を聞きました。お会いした皆さんに、同じ質問をしています。2026年の詐欺を一言で表すなら、何でしょうか？答えは「トレンド化」「爆発的」から「複雑」「進化し続ける」まで、さまざまでした。詐欺を一言だけでは表しきれないこともあります。正直、どれも当てはまります。
今週は素晴らしい対談が本当にたくさんありました。1つのエピソードには収まりきらず、2つに分けてもぎりぎりでした。そこで今回は、バストアウト詐欺から高齢者を狙う詐欺の防止、自動車販売店をめぐる不正、そして新たなリーダーシップのもとでIAFCIがどこへ向かうのかまで、幅広いテーマをテンポよく取り上げる対談シリーズをお届けします。どの対談にも、ぜひ皆さんにそのままお伝えしたいと思う学びがありました。これらの対談で語られるのは、私たちが直面している問題だけではありません。コミュニティで高まり続ける課題をどう乗り越えるか、そのためのツールや連携、そしてますます強固になっている法執行機関と銀行業界のパートナーシップについても取り上げています。
それでは、始めましょう。
このエピソードでお届けする内容：
- なぜ今、「バストアウト詐欺」が大きな注目を集めているのか。また、取り締まりの強化に伴い、こうした犯罪組織がカリフォルニア州やフロリダ州から別の地域へ移っている実態について。
- 自動車ローン詐欺、本人による詐欺、収入の虚偽申告がどのように同時に発生しているのか。また、信用情報だけに頼るのではなく、コンソーシアムデータや申込データに含まれる不正の兆候を活用することが、なぜより重要なのか。
- 実体がほとんどない自動車販売店が、実際には納車されていない車のローンをどのように組んでいるのか。
- ビジネスメール詐欺が今なお法人向け銀行業務における最大の懸念事項の一つである理由と、それを確実に阻止する「いったん止めて、電話し、確認する」習慣。
- 詐欺防止プラットフォームの構築は、高齢者向け住宅に実際に住み込み、問題を身をもって理解することから始まりました。
- 詐欺対策教育を、単なる認知の問題ではなく、行動変容の問題として捉える新たな視点。
- 詐欺犯が小規模な金融機関を狙ったAI活用型の攻撃をますます仕掛けるようになる中でも、小規模地域銀行の不正対策にとって小切手詐欺の動向が依然として深刻な懸念事項である理由。
- IAFCIの業界ワーキンググループを通じた法執行機関と銀行の連携により、見知らぬ者同士だった人々が、事件への迅速な対応が必要なときに頼れる相手へと変わっている仕組み。
- IAFCI自体の今後の展望。詐欺対策に関する政策・規制分野での新たな連携や、現任期末までに会員数1万人を目指す目標など。
次のような方は、ぜひこのエピソードをお聴きください：
- 自動車ローン、ディーラー向け金融、または本人による不正行為の検知に携わっており、バストアウト詐欺の実際の最新事例を知りたい方。
- 商業銀行業務に携わっており、ビジネスメール詐欺への対策として、いったん手続きを止め、電話で確認することが今なおいかに有効かを再認識したい方。
- 高齢者を狙った詐欺の防止に関心があり、対面での直接調査をもとに、ある取り組みがどのように構築されたのかを知りたい方。
- コミュニティバンクで不正対策やリスク管理を担当しており、小規模な金融機関を狙う小切手詐欺の動向やAIを活用した不正攻撃について知見を得たい方。
- 法執行機関と銀行の連携は過小評価されていると考えており、実際の現場でどのように行われているのか、具体的な事例を知りたい方。
- テンポよく進む一問一答形式でありながら、実践に役立つ具体的な学びも得られるエピソードを求めている方。
エピソードノート
回収部門に属する不正対策と、ある自動車販売店での不正事例
Florida Credit Unionで不正対策・債権回収マネージャーを務めるモニカ・ホワイト氏の組織では、不正対策が債権回収部門の傘下に置かれています。彼女は、その体制の有効性を力強く説明してくれました。貸倒償却は、必ずしも単なる不良融資や判断ミスによるものとは限りません。その多くは、本人による不正、合成ID、申込書への虚偽情報の記載に起因しています。不正対策と債権回収を連携させれば、たとえ同じチームでなくても、完全に縦割りの組織では見逃してしまう事案を発見できます。また、彼女の金融機関が対応している自動車販売店による不正の手口についても説明してくれました。融資を受けたにもかかわらず実際には納車されていない車両に関して、所有権に設定された担保権を不正に抹消するというもので、実体がほとんどない販売店が関与している場合もあります。法執行機関が民事問題として扱うことが多いため、通常の不正なら摘発されるようなケースでも見過ごされてしまいます。不正対策に携わる人への彼女の助言はシンプルです。自分の慣れた領域から一歩踏み出し、普段なら話さないような人とも話してみることです。
ビジネスメール詐欺と、それを阻止する5分間の電話確認
ジェフ・テイラーは商業銀行部門の不正対策に携わっており、法人アカウントの乗っ取りが増加する一方で、ビジネスメール詐欺は今なお毎日のように目にする手口だと話してくれました。彼が勧める対策は、「立ち止まり、電話し、確認する」というシンプルで繰り返し実践できるものです。送金する前に、すでに把握していて信頼できる電話番号を使って依頼者に折り返し確認すれば、ビジネスメール詐欺の大半を未然に防げます。彼は銀行の営業地域を回り、法人顧客がこの確認手順を導入できるよう支援しており、取引の阻止や実際の金銭的損失の回避といった、具体的で測定可能な成果を上げていると説明しました。彼が2026年を一言で表すなら「複雑」です。AIや大規模言語モデルによって、十分な知識を持つ人でさえだまされるほど巧妙な、取引先を装ったメールが作られるようになっているからです。彼は、直感的に不審点を確認する簡単な方法も提案しました。支払い依頼に記載された銀行識別番号と口座番号を調べ、その取引先の銀行が本当にその場所にあることが妥当なのかを考えてみるのです。
高齢者向け居住コミュニティの現場からSilverShieldを構築
アレック・グラスマンは、高齢者を詐欺から守るために特化して開発された詐欺対策プラットフォーム、SilverShieldの創業者兼CEOです。支援しようとしている人々を理解するため、フロリダ州のリタイアメント・コミュニティで2か月、オハイオ州の農村部にある高齢者向け住宅・介護施設で2週間、実際に暮らしました。問題について当初抱いていた想定は、ほぼすべて間違っていたことが分かり、その経験によって製品は根本から作り直されたと彼は語りました。カンファレンスでは、会場に集まった人々の幅広さに圧倒されたそうです。信用組合や銀行の調査担当者に加え、HHS、シークレットサービス、さらに連邦・州・市の捜査官が一堂に会し、協力して取り組んでいました。彼の話には、この世界の外にいるとなかなか実感できない重要な点がありました。彼が選んだ一語は「進化」、最後の助言は「共感」でした。被害者にどう向き合うかによって、本当に支援できるかどうかが決まるのです。
自動車ローンにおけるバストアウト詐欺とファーストパーティ詐欺
ジェン・ラモントは銀行業界で21年の経験を持ちますが、IAFCIには参加したばかりです。最近、実務担当からテクノロジー部門へと役割が変わり、現在は特に自動車ローン分野で不正対策に取り組んでいます。今、彼女が最も多く目にしている傾向は、バストアウト詐欺、ファーストパーティ詐欺、収入の虚偽申告で、中でも収入の虚偽申告が最大の問題となっています。彼女の組織では、信用情報への過度な依存をやめ、代わりにコンソーシアムデータと申込データを活用する方向へ移行しています。これは、信用履歴だけでは表面化しない異常を検知するためです。単独の機関だけではこうした問題を解決できないため、現在は連携、情報共有、コンソーシアムデータの活用に重点を置いています。
なぜバストアウト詐欺グループは拠点を移し続けるのか
バストアウト詐欺は、この業界で最も根深い問題の一つであり、叩いても次々に現れるモグラたたきのようなものです。カリフォルニア州やフロリダ州など、よく知られた多発地域で取り締まりが強化されると、犯罪組織は消滅するのではなく、単に米国中部へと活動拠点を移します。Auto Finance Coalitionのような業界団体への参加が広がっていることは、実際に状況を改善している数少ない取り組みの一つです。また、組織がこの問題の存在を認め、行動に移せるほど明確に問題を定義することも重要です。Auto Finance Coalition、Bank Fraud、BSA AML and Anti-Money Laundering、Bust-Out and Synthetic Identities、Cyber Fraud、Cryptocurrency、Human Trafficking、Mortgage Fraud Task Force、Organized Retail Crime、Scams and Financial Exploitation、Skimming and Payment Terminal Attacks。以上が、連携して活動しているIAFCIのグループの全一覧です。Scott Ellefsonは、組織内で詐欺対策を担当しているのが自分一人だけのように感じていても、決して孤独ではないということを皆さんに伝えたいと考えています。
急速に追い上げるコミュニティバンクについて語るスコット・アンチン
Scott Anchin氏は、Independent Community Bankers of Americaで戦略的イニシアチブおよび政策担当の上級副社長を務めています。現在、同氏が詐欺や不正行為に重点を置いているのは、それらがコミュニティバンクの強みの源泉である地域社会との関係を直撃するからです。小切手詐欺は依然として深刻で、今なお続く問題です。小切手の利用件数が減っているからといって、この問題がなくなるわけではありません。詐欺師たちは、利用件数が減る一方で、小切手1枚当たりの平均金額が上昇していることに気づいているからです。また、以前から私が疑っていたことも確認できました。かつて詐欺師が大手金融機関を優先し、ほとんど標的にしていなかったコミュニティバンクも、今では他の金融機関とまったく同じ、高度でAIを駆使した攻撃を受けています。デジタルオンボーディングについてLinker Financeと収録した最近のエピソードに触れると、同氏は、コミュニティバンクは新たな不正防止技術を慎重かつ戦略的に導入する傾向があり、それは、すでに人の手と顧客との関係を重視しているオンボーディングのあり方にも合致していると指摘しました。また、ICBAとIAFCIが共同執筆した「Partnership Framework for Mutual Success」というガイドを公開したばかりで、ICBA.orgから入手できることも教えてくれました。このガイドは、コミュニティバンクの関係者と法執行機関が実効性のある協力関係を築くのを支援することを目的としています。
詐欺防止を単なる啓発ではなく、行動変容として捉える
ヘザー・ノスがScam Ready Familyを設立したきっかけは、彼女の父親が、パソコンに表示されたスケアウェアのポップアップから始まる約20万ドルの詐欺被害に遭ったことでした。彼女は被害にすぐ気づき、数日間にわたって懸命に対応したことで、父親のお金を全額取り戻すことができました。彼女の専門分野は金融や法執行ではなく、チェンジマネジメントと行動変容であり、それが彼女のアプローチ全体を形作っています。彼女の主張の核心は、詐欺についての知識を伝えるだけでは行動は変わらず、それは運動するように言っただけで実際に運動するようにはならないのと同じだ、というものです。そこで彼女はscamreadyfamily.comを立ち上げ、実際の詐欺が進行する中で行われる心理的な誘導を解説する、AI生成の無料動画シミュレーションを制作しました。また、対面講演では、参加者に模擬的なプレッシャーがかかる状況で、詐欺師からの電話を実際に切る練習をしてもらいます。そうすることで、本当にストレスのかかる場面に直面したときにも、すぐにその対応を取れるようにするのです。彼女が挙げた一語は「偽装」、つまり「欺瞞」でした。そして彼女は、私が十分に考えたことのなかった点を指摘しました。かつて正当性を示していた多くの手がかりが今や失われているため、本当に信頼できる情報源を見極めること自体が、人々に教えるべき一つのスキルになっているのです。
IAFCIの今後
クリス・ガーグニ氏は、非営利団体とイベント運営の分野で約29年の経験を積んだ後、6か月前にIAFCIのエグゼクティブディレクターに就任しました。特に印象に残ったのは、彼がこの組織について非常に個人的な思いを込めて語っていたことです。人は関心があるからこそさまざまな団体に参加しますが、IAFCIでは、一つひとつの問題が当事者にとって切実であるため、その思いはさらに深いのだと彼は言います。どの事件の背後にも、実在する祖母やシングルマザー、高齢の被害者がいるという話を耳にするからです。
スティーブ・レンダーマンは、私たちが話をする前夜、IAFCIの次期国際会長として宣誓しました。任期は2027年1月1日に正式に始まります。彼は21年間にわたって会員として活動し、そのうち8年間は支部会長を務めました。もともとは別の会員に誘われてこの組織に加わったそうで、だからこそ今、次世代の不正対策の担い手を育てることを自らの責任の一つと考えています。また、その週の初めに私が耳にしていた出来事についても話してくれました。カロライナ地域のある会員がIAFCIのつながりを通じてニューヨーク市警の担当者に連絡し、詐欺被害者の安否確認をその日のうちに実施してもらったというのです。スティーブはこれを「職業上の助け合い」と表現しました。ここには、最終的に全員が同じ目標に向かって取り組んでいるからこそ生まれる、信頼と協力の基盤があるのです。
重要なポイント
- 既知の多発地域で取り締まりが強化されるにつれ、バストアウト詐欺は発生地域を変え続けており、叩いても別の場所で現れるモグラ叩きのような、根強い課題となっています。
- 自動車ローン詐欺では、本人による不正や所得の虚偽申告が増加しており、その検知には信用情報だけを用いるよりも、コンソーシアムデータの方が高い効果を上げています。
- 一見正規に見える自動車販売店でも、実際には納車されていない車両に関する所有権の担保権抹消詐欺など、現実の詐欺行為に及ぶことがあります。
- ビジネスメール詐欺は、「いったん立ち止まり、電話をかけ、確認する」という簡単な習慣によって、その多くを防ぐことができます。
- 高齢者詐欺の防止策は、高齢者が実際に詐欺をどのように経験しているかを直接調査し、当事者から得た知見に基づいて構築することで、より効果的になります。
- 詐欺対策教育は、一度きりの啓発講座として行うよりも、行動変容を実践的に身につける形で行うほうが効果的です。
- 小切手の利用件数が減る一方で1件当たりの金額が高額化していることから、小切手詐欺は増加傾向にあります。また、AIを活用した標的型詐欺攻撃は、大手金融機関だけでなく地域銀行にも及ぶようになっています。
- IAFCIのようなネットワークを通じた法執行機関と銀行の連携は、実際に事件の迅速な解決につながっています。
最後に押さえておきたいポイント
今回の対話を通じて明らかになったことがあるとすれば、2026年の詐欺は一言では言い表せず、あらゆる側面を同時に併せ持っているということです。増加傾向にあり、複雑で、進化し続けています。今週お話しした方々は皆、同じ闘いの異なる局面に立ち向かっています。州をまたいでひそかに活動する計画的な踏み倒し詐欺グループを追う人もいれば、一本の電話でビジネスメール詐欺の企てを未然に阻止する人もいます。そのすべてをつなぐのは、IAFCIが有効性を証明し続けている、ある共通の考え方です。私たちは誰一人として、この問題に単独で立ち向かうべきではありません。
エピソードの関連資料とリンク
つながる：Steve Lendermen | LinkedIn
iSolved 不正防止部門責任者
つながる：Scott Anchin | LinkedIn
ICBA 戦略イニシアチブ・政策担当シニアバイスプレジデント
つながる：Jen Lamont | LinkedIn
Point Predictiveの不正対策ストラテジスト
つながる：Jeff Taylor | LinkedIn
Regions Bank 不正フォレンジック部門責任者兼上級副社長
つながる：Heather Noss | LinkedIn
Scam Ready Family 創設者
Scam Ready Family
つながる：Scott Ellefson | LinkedIn
Point Predictiveの不正対策コンサルティングマネージャー
つながる：Chris Gergeni | LinkedIn
IAFCI エグゼクティブディレクター
つながる：Alec Glassman | LinkedIn
SilverShield CEO兼創業者
Monica Whiteとつながる | LinkedIn
Florida Credit Union 不正対策・債権回収マネージャー
つながる：Hailey Windham, CFCS | LinkedIn
Fraud Forwardポッドキャストのホスト
Sardineのバンキングコミュニティリード
認定金融犯罪スペシャリスト（CFCS）
2023年クレジットユニオン・ロックスター、CU Magazine
2023年継続的改善賞、SAFE Federal Credit Union
2022年40歳未満のトップ20プロフェッショナル、The Sumter Item
Guests
Episode transcript
Hailey Windham
00:05
So, I'm here not only with Steve Lendermen, the man, the myth, the legend, right? But the incoming international president of IAFCI. Steve, thank you so much for joining us.
Steve Lendermen
00:14
Oh, thanks for having me. Yeah, we did a thing last night where we were sworn in as officers for our term starting uh January 1 of 2027.
Hailey Windham
00:21
Yeah.
Steve Lendermen
00:22
Uh feels like it's so far away, but it'll be here faster than we know it. And uh our new election board members are already starting to work together. Looking forward to the transition uh with the existing board. So uh it's been fun.
Hailey Windham
00:34
Scott Anchin, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Um I really appreciate you joining me.
Scott Anchin
00:40
Absolutely. It's good to be here.
Hailey Windham
00:41
Hi Jen.
Jen Lamont
00:42
Well, hello.
Hailey Windham
00:43
It's been a while since you've been on the podcast.
Jen Lamont
00:45
Like like a whole week.
Hailey Windham
00:46
Like a whole week.
Jen Lamont
00:47
Yeah. Maybe eight days.
Hailey Windham
00:48
I'm glad to have, eight days. It might be 14 by the time this episode releases. So hey, um you have been blessed. Um, I have been blessed honestly.
Hailey Windham
00:56
I am here with one of my absolute favorite fraud fighters, Jeff Taylor. Um, Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.
Jeff Taylor
01:02
Absolutely. Thank you, Hailey.
Hailey Windham
01:04
Of course,
Hailey Windham
01:05
Heather, thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Heather Noss
01:07
Thanks for having me,
Hailey Windham
01:09
Scott.
Scott Ellefson
01:10
Yes.
Hailey Windham
01:10
Thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Scott Ellefson
01:12
Absolutely. A pleasure.
Hailey Windham
01:13
All right, Chris, thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Chris Gergeni
01:15
Well, thank you for having me.
Hailey Windham
01:16
I am so excited to get to talk to you. You are one of those people that I feel like you're this this constant for us all. It's like, thank God that we have Chris.
Hailey Windham
01:25
All right, Alec. So, thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Alec Glassman
01:29
Thanks so much for having me,
Hailey Windham
01:30
Monica. Thank you so much for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Monica White
01:33
Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me.
Hailey Windham
01:34
Of course. So, I'd love it if you could introduce yourself to the audience, just who you are and and what it is that you do.
Monica White
01:40
Sure. Um, so I'm Monica White. I am from Florida, Gainesville, Florida. Go Gators. Um, I uh am a fraud manager, collections manager at Florida Credit Union. So, um, we have fraud under the umbrella of collections, which is pretty unique. Um, the fraud is where the passion is, though.
Hailey Windham
01:55
Yeah. Yeah. I, um, remember meeting you, um, at the Florida crypto conference, and we spoke about that, uh, exact thing. Where, um, I had never seen, uh, fraud being under collections. But, it makes so much sense uh, to where, you know, you kind of already have those connections and know where to look for things for those uh, kind of asset recovery almost.
Monica White
02:17
Yeah.
Hailey Windham
02:18
Um but so excited to finally have you on the podcast. We'll definitely bring you back on for a longer form um episode. Obviously, we're here at the IAFCI Nashville um international conference. And what do you think of the conference so far?
Monica White
02:34
I love it. Um they're doing a really good job keeping us entertained uh with subjects that are like very good. Um I love how this organization has evolved over the years. So, it's almost a problem how many good classes they have because you can't go to all of them.
Hailey Windham
02:47
I have heard that multiple times. Where it's like if I could just duplicate myself so I can attend all of them. Um, I was even talking with uh Kathy Stokes with AARP and she was like, "Hailey, I just I I want to go to all of them. I I love it." So there is the it's like they really tried so hard this year to make sure that no matter what, we were leaving more informed than ever before. So that we can actually do something when we get back to our you know respected jobs.
Monica White
03:13
Yeah. Agreed. And they're they're doing a lot more uh networking events too which is really nice. Because we all know that's where the real ma magic happens, right?
Hailey Windham
03:19
100%. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So when you uh think about fraud for 2026 if you had one word to describe it what would you what would you use?
Monica White
03:28
Oof. Trending.
Hailey Windham
03:30
Yeah,
Monica White
03:31
Maybe. Um, not one word, but fraud as a service now, right? It's a whole economy. Um, it's really scary, but it's exciting. It's a little bit of job security.
Hailey Windham
03:41
Yes. Um, I I think the one thing that I like about it, beyond just the job security, is that it's it's never the same thing every day. Every day there's a new challenge, a new concept, a new trend like you said, where truly we have to stay on our P's and Q's, right? If we don't, then we've really put ourselves at a, in a vulnerable state.
Monica White
04:01
Yeah, we're already behind the ball. Um, and the fact that we have so many things in place that don't allow us to communicate as financial institutions, um, there's a lot of privacy laws um that are hard to navigate and the fraudsters don't have those roadblocks.
Hailey Windham
04:13
Yeah. Yeah. They they unfortunately don't have to follow the rules and regulations like we do.
Monica White
04:16
Right
Hailey Windham
04:18
They just get to pivot on a dime.
Monica White
04:19
Right.
Hailey Windham
04:20
So unfair. Um so is there any particular trend that you're seeing um increasing more this year than than you have in the past?
Monica White
04:28
Oof, um. Right now one thing we're struggling with um I'll speak to it a little bit on the collection side but it's fraud. Um is a lot of these dealerships are doing really dirty work. Um and there's no regulations uh there's nobody you know knocking on their door to tell them that they're doing wrong. Um, law enforcement sees it as a civil matter. Um, but there's so much criminal activity happening in these dealerships. Maybe the dealerships don't even exist. Yeah, we're dealing with that a lot. Um, we're dealing with a lot of uh like lean stripping uh for vehicles that never existed that we financed, gave them money out to, and now we're looking for the car and it's never it they just used the VIN number, right? So, um we're having a lot of issues with just legitimate businesses doing shady things.
Hailey Windham
05:13
Yeah, that's so unfortunate. It's like we already have to struggle with the fake businesses that are popping up. And now to know that there's a legitimate one that's just taking advantage. It's just uh
Monica White
05:25
Yeah. And it is fraud. And and and people don't look at it like that because we're the big bank, and we we have the money, and we can eat the loss, and um and it's just not it's not fair, which is a weird thing to say. Um
Hailey Windham
05:37
I just want to stomp my feet and.
Monica White
05:39
Yeah. Yeah. We've got the boots to do it.
Hailey Windham
05:41
Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Monica White
05:41
Um, I think, you know, the the fraud being under collections is nice because all of these charge offs are not just bad loans. They weren't just bad decisions. Um, there's a lot of people that are lying on their applications or um, presenting false information, synthetic identities. And so, I think a lot of institutions are missing out on fraud and collections being, if they're not going to be under the same manager or the same umbrella, that's fine. But there needs to be that connection, that relationship that happens. And I think that's a huge disconnect in financial institutions.
Hailey Windham
06:12
Yeah. So true. I I love that perspective. It's one that I uh hadn't considered before, but one that I definitely want to bring you back on to to kind of dive into a bit further for the audience because I know they're going to find it intriguing as well. Um but for the sake of this podcast, because I know that there's probably another uh session that's going to let out soon and they're going to walk in front of this camera. Because there's no wherewithal when we come out of a out of a session. Um, if there's anything uh any advice you would give to uh an investigator or someone at a a bank that's watching now, what what would that be?
Monica White
06:44
My advice would be to get outside of your comfort zone. Um, talk to people you wouldn't normally talk to. You you have no idea what type of conversation might happen and where that conversation might lead you to solve a case. I actually have a buddy, I'll make it quick, was in a presentation yesterday morning. Um, at the end of the presentation, they put the uh suspect up on the the screen and my buddy, a detective goes, "That's my guy." He was looking for the guy they were able to solve a case with just from being in a class. So, this is outside of his comfort zone. He's not the kind of person who's going to sit in this chair, um or just go mingle with strangers. But, um he you know, you have to do that if you want to get things done.
Hailey Windham
07:19
So, true. The networking aspect is something that is so um under underappreciated I guess especially in the executive uh level. They they don't realize how much it does for the fraud team. It may be different for the C suite when they go to conference and they network. Maybe they're not benefiting the way that we are. But as investigators, fraud fighters, we we truly need this networking in order to be effective.
Monica White
07:44
Yeah. I mean, so much is proprietary, right? So that's why they're probably not wanting to do the networking. But with us, we have to share. And it's not proprietary. We we're going to do this together.
Hailey Windham
07:53
No one wants to be number one in fraud .
Monica White
07:56
Yeah. I mean, and if the fun thing about this though is if they're doing if you have a company, an agency, a credit union that's doing really well in this space, they also want you to do really well in this space.
Hailey Windham
08:05
Yes, it's so so true. So, thank you so much for joining me today again. I'm going to definitely have you back on and just really appreciate your time.
Monica White
08:13
Yeah, anytime, Hailey. Thank you for having me.
Hailey Windham
08:14
So, we're doing the fraud fighter soundcheck uh session right now, which is I want to ask you, what fraud trend has your attention right now?
Jeff Taylor
08:22
It's still business email compromise.
Hailey Windham
08:23
Yeah,
Jeff Taylor
08:23
I mean I see that every day. Uh we're seeing some introduction additional introduction of account takeover. But you know I work on the commercial side. So it's mostly businesses that I'm working with but it's still it's so easily to be prevented and if on the business email compromise side it's just one of those things that if you ask a few simple questions and you stop and as we say stop call and confirm. If you'll pick up the phone and call the requester at a number that you know and confirm the request is legitimate, you can literally stop business email compromise. But we're just reluctant to do that for some reason.
Hailey Windham
08:59
And that's such a powerful tool that you guys have the stop uh confirm.
Jeff Taylor
09:04
Stop, call, and confirm.
Hailey Windham
09:05
Stop, call, and confirm. I love
Jeff Taylor
09:06
Stop, drop, and roll.
Hailey Windham
09:07
I love it. I love it. So, it's one thing that like you're in that's what your organization is doing right now to help prevent this and and you're seeing some some benefits in this, right?
Jeff Taylor
09:16
Absolutely. So I I travel across our footprint. Uh talking to clients uh at length. Helping them to understand ways that they can uh put controls in place on their side of the payment transactions to try to help prevent some of these things from occurring. And and we do see positive results from it. From clients who tell us we put the control in place. We are holding our people accountable for stop calling and confirming and it's working. We have stopped transactions. We know that we have saved ourselves some money and we feel more comfortable now working online and creating ACH and wire transactions because we know we're confirming those with those legitimate sources.
Hailey Windham
10:00
That is such a it's such a positive thing that can be done that you don't even have to have additional monetary resources to implement something like that. And it's it's simple, but it's something that truly makes the world of difference.
Jeff Taylor
10:12
Yep. And I think I've said this on a podcast before with you, but I always say, Hailey, it's a five minute phone call.
Hailey Windham
10:18
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
10:19
And it is a whole lot easier to explain why I'm calling to verify and confirm this transaction than it is to go back and explain a half a million dollar loss.
Hailey Windham
10:28
It's so true. Love that. So, if you had one word to describe fraud in 2026, what word would it be?
Jeff Taylor
10:34
Oh gosh. Uh I think complex.
Hailey Windham
10:38
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
10:38
I think it's getting more and more complex. Um, we're seeing fraudsters who are leveraging artificial intelligence. They're leveraging the large language models to create uh really succinct emails that are uh they're able to penetrate vendors email platforms through social engineering. And and so a lot of these emails look like they're coming from the legitimate vendor. They've got the legitimate vendor's URL on the back end of the email address, but they've spoofed that email address somehow. They've created a a new user or something to make it look more and more legitimate and and they're just getting better at what they do. And so for us, it requires for us and our for our clients requires more vigilance, more patience really to think about, does this really sound right? You know, is this why would my company or why would my vendor be doing business with a financial institution that's headquartered across the country? And and thinking through those things. Something as simple as Googling the, I shouldn't say Google. Can you cut that out?
Hailey Windham
11:46
I can cut that out.
Jeff Taylor
11:47
Using your search engine to search the routing and transit and account number. And so if you look at that routing and transit and account number and it's a a financial institution that's located overseas or located in a different part of the country,
Hailey Windham
12:03
Right.
Jeff Taylor
12:04
Does that really make sense that a vendor domiciled in the southeast, as an example, or in the state of Tennessee, would bank with someone in California?
Hailey Windham
12:13
Yeah,
Jeff Taylor
12:13
Probably not. And so it would make you pause and think through that transaction before you actually submit that payment.
Hailey Windham
12:21
Yep. I was having a conversation with someone earlier and we were talking about deep fakes um and you know how do we really protect ourselves and one of the things I was saying especially for you know when we think about even us as fraud fighters like how do we make sure we're not going to fall victim to you know a scam or things like that and one of the things I said is you know trying not to be too distracted, we're so busy.
Jeff Taylor
12:42
Right.
Hailey Windham
12:42
And and yes we are embracing AI and we're it's making us more efficient but it's also giving us more work.
Jeff Taylor
12:47
Right.
Hailey Windham
12:49
And so I you know I myself was uh you know I almost clicked on a link but it was because I thought it was something from the school. I was just trying to do it quickly you know for for my kids. And then I was like oh wait hold up that's not what I'm supposed to do. But I it could have been you know a problem for me because I I was so distracted and just trying to get through something quickly.
Jeff Taylor
13:09
I'm so glad my voice was in your head somewhere to say stop and and pause just a moment before you do that. You know it it's happened to me. I I've gotten invitations um that were I thought maybe an invitation to a friend's birthday party.
Hailey Windham
13:24
Yep.
Jeff Taylor
13:24
And it came from his wife and I thought, well, I could ask him, but now I'm afraid it was a surprise for him.
Hailey Windham
13:30
Oh yeah.
Jeff Taylor
13:31
So, uh fortunately I checked with her at church and she said, "Nope, it was a scam." They got into my email and and distributed that invitation to to everybody that was in my email address or address book.
Hailey Windham
13:46
Yeah. Okay, final question. Uh, again, here at the conference, is there any advice or um any words of wisdom you'd give to a fraud fighter who maybe hasn't uh been able to join the IAFCI or be a part of uh this conference or just in general? What uh advice would you give to a fraud fighter?
Jeff Taylor
14:03
I think you've got to get involved.
Hailey Windham
14:04
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
14:05
Um I I would take advantage of these sessions here. If you're here at this conference, listen.
Hailey Windham
14:12
Yeah.
Jeff Taylor
14:12
Take good notes. Do things that will help you improve. It's about being yourself, educating yourself, and learning more about all the different things that these experts have to say to you and and tell you about. And then go to other conferences, go to these situations, listen to Hailey's podcast. I mean, the the folks that you have on the podcast are are industry veterans and they know what they know what to do. They know how to do it and they know how to communicate the different ways to to investigate. And so I just think you've got to take advantage of these situations and make sure that you are learning.
Hailey Windham
14:51
So true. Jeff, thank you so much for joining me today.
Jeff Taylor
14:54
Love you. You're so great. Appreciate you so much.
Hailey Windham
14:57
Appreciate you.
Jeff Taylor
14:57
Bye.
Hailey Windham
14:58
I would love it if you could just tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do.
Alec Glassman
15:02
Yeah. So, I'm Alec Glassman. I'm the founder and CEO of SilverShield. We're an anti-scam platform. So, we help empower people to protect themselves from scams and fraud. And then we help the institutions serving folks better help them as well understand what's going on with their member or client base.
Hailey Windham
15:18
I love that. I'd love it if you could tell them a little bit more about the the story for how you were building it and what what you did to really get the true insights. Um because I thought that was just so interesting.
Alec Glassman
15:29
Yeah. So when we started um we wanted to make sure that we could be really really effective for older adults because obviously scams are a huge issue for older adults. And so I actually lived for 2 months in a retirement community in Florida and then for 2 weeks in a senior living community like independent and assisted living in rural Ohio to spend time with the people that we were trying to really help.
Hailey Windham
15:51
Yeah.
Alec Glassman
15:51
And it was interesting because basically everything that I thought about this problem and how to address it, I very very quickly learned was completely wrong and backwards. And it's really informed how we've been able to build such an awesome product now uh going forward.
Hailey Windham
16:08
I think that it is such a differentiator between you and a lot of uh companies I've talked to before. You truly immersed yourself into understanding the problems of a generation that we don't necessarily understand. Um, and because they grew up a lot differently than we did. And so being able to truly like just surround yourself with them, understand, you know, why it is they even accept calls or respond to things the way they do, I I think is commendable. But honestly, it just is another thing that kind of puts that little validation check mark whenever, you know, we're talking to you. Um, anyways, I I'm so thankful that you agreed to come on the podcast. Obviously, we're here at the IAFCI International Conference in Nashville. What are your thoughts so far?
Alec Glassman
16:50
It it's been amazing. Um, I think that I totally underestimated the breadth of people that would be here. Um, man, I've been hanging out with investigators from credit unions and banks, but I was with people who help with HH uh with uh HHS, and I was with people who were in Secret Service, and I was with people who were federal investigators, people who were city and state investigators. Um, so it's really been wild to get all these different perspectives and actually super cool because I don't think people realize on the outside how much folks in this world work with each other to help people.
Hailey Windham
17:32
Yeah.
Alec Glassman
17:33
Uh, and that is so um it's it's motivating. Um, it's it's a tough subject fraud. Um, but it's hard to leave here without some serious optimism seeing these different groups work together so effectively.
Hailey Windham
17:48
Yeah, I I totally agree. I think the first time I ever experienced IAFCI, I was like, "Wait a minute, that's the cop I've been trying to get a hold of forever." And then we finally get in touch and then it's like, "Oh, now we're best buds. We communicate openly about what investigations need, you know, help on from either side." And then it's like, "Hey," he calls me and he goes, "Hey, do you have know somebody at another bank or credit union?" And it's like, yeah. And then the same thing happens and he connects me with another county that I need.
Alec Glassman
18:13
Well, well, everyone has the same goal, right?
Hailey Windham
18:15
Yeah. 100%.
Alec Glassman
18:16
Everyone wants to help people protect themselves and help get the bad guys. Um and I think again it's hard from the outside to see it as collaboration happens, but I think groups like IAFCI make it possible.
Hailey Windham
18:30
Yeah.
Alec Glassman
18:31
And then what's cool is what you're talking about, which is like you meet someone here and that carries forward and compounds going forward and and that's how you make real change.
Hailey Windham
18:39
Yeah. So true. So I'd love it if you could describe uh fraud using one word. What would that be?
Alec Glassman
18:45
Evolving.
Hailey Windham
18:46
Oh, that's a great one. I think it's uh constantly evolving, right? Where if we don't try our best to keep up um we're we never will. Um also making sure that we understand truly uh the different vectors of where it's attacking us from. And then also the victim uh perspective, where are we um making sure that we consider how one person would respond versus another? And it's just a great um a great word that you've used at, you know, evolving. So again, we are here at the IAFCI. I can't thank you enough for for joining me. Is there any um advice or thoughts that you would give to investigators or bankers listening today?
Alec Glassman
19:27
I think that the key to all of this is empathy.
Hailey Windham
19:31
Yes.
Alec Glassman
19:33
I think that the more empathetic that you can be in your approach when you're talking to victims and helping victims is how you can connect with people to make a really big difference and ultimately effectively fight fraud.
Hailey Windham
19:49
I love that so much. Alec, thank you again so much for joining me. We've got a class that's letting out, so a few people Yeah, this is walking and talking real real life.
Alec Glassman
19:58
We we you weren't messing around. We are at the IAFCI conference. So, you know, we're really smack in the middle of it here.
Hailey Windham
20:03
Yeah. Right there. Right there. So, thank you again so much. Glad to have you on.
Alec Glassman
20:06
Appreciate your time.
Hailey Windham
20:07
So, we are here at the IFCI international uh conference in Nashville. Love to know what your thoughts are on the conference.
Jen Lamont
20:13
Oh my gosh, the content of this conference has been absolutely incredible. The only hard part is the fact that you can't choose one thing. So you're missing out on something that you're really interested in because you've you've had to make a choice
Hailey Windham
20:26
Or you're doing a podcast.
Jen Lamont
20:27
Or you're doing a podcast. And then you know then trying to keep up with work while we're here, And the balance of conferences in general are um somewhat of a challenge sometimes but uh it's it's worth it.
Hailey Windham
20:36
Yeah. Yeah. So um I would uh love to know also you are a new member of IAFCI.
Jen Lamont
20:43
I am.
Hailey Windham
20:44
Okay. You've been in banking for how long?
Jen Lamont
20:48
21 years
Hailey Windham
20:49
And you're just now finding the IAFCI. But we're not going to shame you or joke for that, but I will say what makes this one special compared to other associations do you think?
Jen Lamont
21:00
That is a wonderful question and something actually I was having a conversation with a law enforcement officer this morning. Um we were kind of talking about the difference between the different associations that we're a part of. Um not to not to downgrade any other conference or anything like that, but this one just feels different. I think the the mix of individuals here, it's really a split between law enforcement and the banking sector. And that collaboration is so powerful in so many of the investigations that we do. We need friends in this industry.
Hailey Windham
21:28
Yeah.
Jen Lamont
21:29
So, I think that's what makes it a little bit different is the the networking. It's not big enough to um to get lost. It's small enough to where you can still connect with people. I mean, I guess I mean there's like a thousand people here. So, I mean it is a really huge conference, but I feel like the way that it's set up is is perfect for networking.
Hailey Windham
21:47
So true. So true. So, is there any particular trend um that you're seeing maybe spike in 2026 when it comes to fraud?
Jen Lamont
21:55
You know, now that my role has changed, I'm no longer in the practitioner role. My my answer would have probably been different four or five months ago. I probably would have focused more on scams and exploitation and things like that. Um I am now in a role where I'm in the tech world, fighting fraud from a from a different seat. So, what I'm seeing in that industry though, and it's specific to um like the auto lending space, is a lot of bust out fraud, first-party fraud, um income misrepresentation. I would say probably income misrepresentation is one of the things we're seeing the most of.
Hailey Windham
22:25
Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything that, uh you're seeing organizations do to, you know, prevent or mitigate some of these things?
Jen Lamont
22:33
Uh well, I can speak to what my organization is doing and um that is really leaning on consortium data.
Hailey Windham
22:39
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Lamont
22:40
And not not relying on credit reports as much anymore and relying on application data to detect those those anomalies.
Hailey Windham
22:47
Okay. I love that. Um so clearly uh we're going to have a session that releases soon and then there will be people walking through. So I won't keep you uh too much longer, but I'd love to know if you had um you know I've actually asked you this question back in May, so it'll be great to um see how your uh answer changed.
Jen Lamont
23:03
The fact that you remember a question you asked me in May says a lot about you. Because I wouldn't remember.
Hailey Windham
23:09
Well, it it was at another conference, but uh let's see. So, if you had one word to describe fraud in 2026, what would it be?
Jen Lamont
23:17
I don't remember what I said in it. I do remember you asking me the question. One word to describe fraud. Um, explosive. Yeah.
Jen Lamont
23:30
It is exploding.
Hailey Windham
23:31
Yeah.
Jen Lamont
23:31
Um, and I think I I think we're we're not going to see that end anytime soon. And I think we I'm I'm excited though. The things that are like top of my mind right now are just collaboration, information, sharing, consortium data. It all leads back to us working together.
Hailey Windham
23:47
Yeah.
Jen Lamont
23:48
Sharing information, leaning on uh leaning on those things to to fight a battle that is is very uphill.
Hailey Windham
23:56
Yeah. I love that. Well, Jen, thank you so much again for joining me. I promised it wouldn't be more than 5 minutes, so I'm going to let you get back to the conference. Um, but thank you again for joining me on Fraud Forward live in person in Nashville.
Jen Lamont
24:07
The answer is always yes.
Hailey Windham
24:08
Thank you.
Hailey Windham
24:09
So, we are obviously here at the IAFCI and I'd love to first ask what do you think of the conference?
Heather Noss
24:14
Uh, it's great that it's my first time here. And it's a little uh broader coverage than what I usually learn or talk about. So, it's been very interesting to me.
Hailey Windham
24:23
I have always loved that about the IAFCI. It's a perfect blend, I think, of all things law enforcement, investigations, banking, um, industry, associations, kind of all coming together, just showing that that collaborative effort really does make a difference.
Heather Noss
24:38
Yeah. It's Yep. And great to talk to everybody.
Hailey Windham
24:41
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, you were telling me a little bit about um your your scam defense skills. I'd love it if you could tell tell the audience a little bit about that.
Heather Noss
24:49
Sure. So, my company is called Scam Ready Family. And I started this uh, I was inspired because my dad was the victim of quite a significant scam. Uh almost $200,000 in uh very typical I guess you know started with some scareware with a popup on his computer. I've heard this many times. Uh I actually ended up getting that all that money back for him. Um because I found out about it very quickly. Had some good coincidences and also because I uh busted my butt for intensely for several days in a row, but that's another story.
Hailey Windham
25:23
Yes.
Heather Noss
25:24
So, my background is more in change management. Uh and I also interested in behavior change. So, I know a uh a lot of people in the scam education realm uh come a lot from finance or law enforcement. And I think uh I bring a different perspective on how one might view the scam problem at least from the perspective of a regular person. So when I was looking for more materials for my dad, I was not finding the kind of education that I wanted for him and for myself because I was also learning about it. So one of the biggest I think principles and I see this as a change management problem. Of course you come from where you come from and you see it how you see it. Uh so I see the change is we uh went from a world where we could operate more or less normally in a digital world to one where we cannot. And we're bombarded constantly by scams and you know other frauds. And just you know it that takes some actual behavior change just on the part of regular people, right? So um in behavior change or change management there's no situation I challenge you to think of a situation where you uh could just tell someone about something and expect them to change or understand what you're talking about. So, some examples, uh you tell people that exercise is good for them. Do they exercise? No. You tell medical professionals to wash their hands. Do they always even do that? No. That's a big change management problem. Uh if you want someone to learn how to swim, do you give them a lecture and uh you know 10 points on how to swim or do you give them swim lessons, right? That's how you learn how to swim. So my uh so what I have done uh with actually we talk about the benefits of AI it was the development of AI visual technology that allowed me to start doing the kind of videos and education that I want to do. So if you take a look scamreadyfamily.com uh they're all free. You can just click on them immediately. Uh I use AI to create actual simulations of scams in progress. But in a you know narrated way and pointing out the psychological attacks uh what's going on when someone's trying to scam you. So it's not always specific to the scam although the simulations show you what's Happening. But um it you know it's highlighting the psychological attack that's happening. And so my hope with those is one, whenever you see something, you remember it better. And then whenever I I haven't gotten too far in the videos, but in my in-person talks, I'm always looking to address a behavior, a behavior change that will help you with scams. So in my main talk, um, we actually practice how you get off the phone. I hear a lot like, "Oh, you should have a script to get off the phone." Well, we actually practice it and you know in a in a calm situation so that when you're under that stress, you actually remember what to do. So, uh please take a look. I know I just told you about it and maybe and of course your audience too cuz I'm getting the word out, but please take a look. Like,
Hailey Windham
28:33
For sure. So, I'll say um that there's a third option with learning how to swim and it's the one my parents took and that's where they just threw me in the water, which I feel is how we we operate as uh fraud fighters where we truly are just kind of thrown in there, right? Um so, knowing that there is a resource like this one that we can direct people to that can kind of immerse them into uh this this training or or kind of like this this realm with the videos of like being able to see the scenario play out. Um, I I think that's a phenomenal resource and I thank you so much for for sharing that with us. I I have another fraud question for you.
Heather Noss
29:08
Um, sure.
Hailey Windham
29:09
If you um would, could describe fraud or scams in 2026 with one word, what would it be?
Heather Noss
29:15
Fakery.
Hailey Windham
29:16
Yeah.
Heather Noss
29:17
Or deception.
Hailey Windham
29:18
Yeah. Yeah. I I I think it's so true. Uh literally we we try and we struggle uh with just making sure that people are so trusting um in this world, but unfortunately the the fakers, the bad actors, they're getting really good.
Heather Noss
29:34
Yeah. And just learning, you know, one of my other um things I focus on is, you know, how do you find a source that you do trust. With is, which is so challenging now. That's another behavior that needs to be learned, right? Or because uh one of my friends who I make, you know, watch all my stuff uh and talked to her a lot about it. What she said, well, what was really um what she really learned, not just what the scams look like, is how much things have changed and how quickly. Because all of the signals you may have known before and thought you could rely on there, a lot of them are gone now. And so, what are the new things and how do I actually know what I'm trusting or not trusting? Things like that. Yeah.
Hailey Windham
30:19
Well, thank you again so much for joining me. I I so appreciate learning more about Scam Ready Family and we'll definitely be checking it out. We will include it in the uh show notes and if okay, I'll add it to my Fraud Fighter resources page.
Heather Noss
30:30
That would be amazing. No, it's so great to meet you. I'm a I'm a big listener and uh so this is a delight for me to be with you.
Hailey Windham
30:36
Well, thank you so much.
Heather Noss
30:37
All right. Thanks.
Hailey Windham
30:38
We're here at the IAFCI International Conference in Nashville. Uh what do you think of it so far?
Scott Ellefson
30:42
Oh, it's fantastic. I mean, I've been coming to these things for a lot longer than I'd like to say out loud.
Hailey Windham
30:48
It shows your age when you do that.
Scott Ellefson
30:49
Yeah. Exactly. Right. And if the gray hair is not a giveaway, then then it goes back a while. But, uh, I've been wanting to come to Nashville for many years, but it's been outstanding. It's you see the same group of people, you see those same friends that you made. Um, getting to follow their careers. It is outstanding.
Hailey Windham
31:07
I agree. I I love the the collaboration. But apart from that, it's this is the the one place that I'm like, these are my people, man.
Scott Ellefson
31:15
Yes.
Hailey Windham
31:16
Like everywhere I turn around, I I see different county, I see government agencies, I see bankers, I see credit unions, and I'm like, ah, I love you guys.
Scott Ellefson
31:25
Oh, absolutely. You know, that's it. We have all walks of life, right?
Hailey Windham
31:28
Yeah. Scott You know, whatever whatever money or fraud can be committed, you got them here. And the best part is just seeing that collaboration between law enforcement and private sector. I think sometimes there's this like adversarial notion of us versus them. Um, and this kind of breaks down that wall and it's just like it's important. It's like who you know, who you talk to, right? Phone a friend.
Hailey Windham
31:52
Right. So Scott, what is it that you do? Uh, just for perspective.
Scott Ellefson
31:56
Absolutely. So I work for Point Predictive and I'm a strategy consultant there. So, um I guess it was maybe uh just pre predestined that I would go work for Frank McKenna because I have known that man forever as well. Um so really just helping our clients solve their fraud problems with our products.
Hailey Windham
32:14
Yeah. So with those conversations that you're seeing, uh what's what's like a a trending, you know, fraud thing that's happening right now?
Scott Ellefson
32:22
Well, one that's always near and dear to my heart are like fraud bust out rings.
Hailey Windham
32:25
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
32:26
You know, I think that's become a real hot topic. We've put out quite a bit of writings on those on some of the work I've done on them. But uh they're just, you know, perpetual, never ending. They grow and it's kind of like whack-a-mole, too.
Hailey Windham
32:38
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
32:39
You know, sure, law enforcement is doing what they can, but fraudsters are always adapting. So, by the time they start cracking down, that ring's already shifted and pivoted to a new county, a new city. Um, and I think this is too where you can see this pattern. We're watching the pattern. it kind of started in those known areas and uh California and Florida. It's starting to move in the middle it's starting to move up. So yeah you know and those are challenging because how you know trying to get a bust out can be difficult
Hailey Windham
33:09
yeah so true
Scott Ellefson
33:10
So a lot of times it's too late by the time you find out
Hailey Windham
33:13
Yeah is there anything that institutions are doing now that that kind of helps with this problem with bust outs.
Scott Ellefson
33:18
Absolutely. Well besides the products that we can offer. Um that notwithstanding, I think um seeing a growth both in participation in industry groups like the auto finance coalition. Shout out to y'all there.
Hailey Windham
33:30
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
33:31
Um is that collaboration. Um and I think just communicating more about it. Like helping your organization understand what it is, what it looks like. So I think just right off the bat, like once you fence that in and acknowledge it's happening, what it looks like, now you can start saying, "Hey, what do we want to do about it?"
Hailey Windham
33:52
Yeah, I love that. And I love that you mentioned the industry working group for for the audience that's listening. These this is one of the ones that is part of the IAFCI. So I can see the the banner right there that tells me a list of all of them. So I'm going to read this now for you guys. But it's um the industry working groups. They've got the auto finance coalition which is what you just mentioned, bank fraud, BSA AML and anti-money laundering. uh bust out synthetic identities, cyber fraud, cryptocurrency, human trafficking, mortgage fraud task force, organized retail crime, scams and financial exploitation, and skimming and payment terminal attack. So I I agree these these working groups are like in comparison, so grateful that we have these. This is another way that if you're looking to get involved, again uh yeah I just had Steve Lindman on, and we talked about just the um you know the cost of being a member of IAFCI. And how you know it it's always been made a goal to keep it affordable for just the even the new investigator that comes on. And those industry groups right there just kind of prove that that it's worth the money.
Scott Ellefson
34:54
You are not alone. If you are your sole fraud person at your organization, come to us. You're not alone, you know, and you can I have learned. I am so grateful to for the mentors, Steve Lenderman.
Hailey Windham
35:08
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
35:09
Shout out to you too, my friend, because I can't I mean I I cut my teeth working with him and some of the old greats that have gone on to retirement. So, you know, you you know, and we love sharing that. I think that's what all of us have this like almost like inherent need to share our experiences where we our trials and tribulations. So,
Hailey Windham
35:32
Yeah, love that. Okay. Uh final question for you and I'll let you go. I know we've got busy schedules today. It's the last day of IAFCI. Um if you had one word to describe fraud for 2026, what would it be?
Scott Ellefson
35:43
Pernicious.
Hailey Windham
35:44
Oh, I need to get my Googler out for that.
Scott Ellefson
35:47
I know. Uh so there you go.
Hailey Windham
35:48
Is that a wordle or something? A word of the day.
Scott Ellefson
35:51
I it might I don't know but let's make it the word of the day. So everyone please use pernicious.
Hailey Windham
35:57
Find some way to use that today.
Scott Ellefson
35:58
Yeah. I I think that's it. It's uh just > it's not that the frauds are necessarily unique or different or leveraging. It was just more of it.
Hailey Windham
36:08
Yeah.
Scott Ellefson
36:08
There's just more of it than I've ever seen. To the point where it can be almost overwhelming. And but and that's just proof in the pudding that now is not the time to take your foot off the gas. If you're in fraud prevention, fraud operations, push harder, push your organizations, you need the resources. Um it's cheaper to spend a little money and stop all that fraud up front than have to deal with it on the back end.
Hailey Windham
36:31
Yeah. So true. So true. Well, Scott, thank you again so much for joining me. I know I kind of just grabbed you while you were walking past, but I appreciate you joining me today. Scott E 36:39 Oh, absolutely. A pleasure. Hailey,
Hailey Windham
36:41
Can you uh just for the audience um again your name and uh where you work, what it is that you do? Scott A 36:46 Sure. Absolutely. So, my name is Scott Anchin. Uh I'm senior vice president strategic initiatives and policy at the Independent Community Bankers of America. And so, that's a really broad title.
Hailey Windham
36:55
It really is.
Scott Anchin
36:56
Uh but as we think about strategic initiatives, I think one of the chief strategic initiatives we have right now is helping community bankers to fight fraud and scams. Because fraud and scams, of course, not only do they hit the bottom line, but they affect community banks exactly in the place where they have their strongest advantage, which is those community relationships. So, fraud and scams affect those relationships.
Hailey Windham
37:19
Let me tell you, you are preaching to the choir. I fully believe that it's, you know, I think that the mission is so much different in in community banks where truly you're here and you were created for this one community who was like, "Hey, we kind of need financial services here." And I remember, you know, that's where I started my banking career was um actually at a community bank. I'm still a proud customer there and check in from time to time. Um, and just knowing the the connection that they have within the community and what work they do do to prevent fraud or at least try uh with the resources they have available and what they know about. Um, it's it's unmatched.
Scott Anchin
37:57
Yeah, absolutely. And I think they take that role very very seriously. It's very core to what they do. Uh, and it's great because they have opportunities, I think, to help customers uh when they may or are affected by fraud and scams that other institutions probably don't have. And so it's really gratifying to see that in action.
Hailey Windham
38:17
So true. So true. So in your role now um uh you know speaking with uh community banks, credit unions are thinking about strategy. Is there any uh you know fraud trend or or scam that's really become more prevalent in community banks?
Scott Anchin
38:30
Yeah. I think what's amazing is that we continue to see and this won't be news to your listeners but we continue to see check fraud uh as a significant problem. And we know that as the volumes of checks go down that are being used, the amount of each check is going up. And so of course fraudsters know that.
Hailey Windham
38:47
Of course
Scott Anchin
38:48
Uh and they go where the money is. So we continue to see check fraud uh really really be a significant concern. But along with that, which of course is a more legacy system, we're also seeing the rise of new more sophisticated uh fraud and scams just the same as larger institutions are seeing. So a lot of AI targeting and things like that. I think for a long time community banks were largely immune from those things.
Hailey Windham
39:13
Yes.
Scott Anchin
39:14
Uh because uh fraudsters and scammers would target the larger institutions. Uh but now they have the ability to target some of the smaller ones. So we see small community banks and mid-size community banks, large community banks affected by the exact same fraud and scams that everybody else is uh affected by.
Hailey Windham
39:32
Yeah. So true. Um I recently did a podcast episode with uh Linker Finance and they were talking about um you know just their approach to community banking and trying to help bring on like digital onboarding which is something that most community banks uh you know rightfully so are a little uh you know timid about. Because it does open so much so many opportunities and vulnerabilities um in their current processes to allow fraud in. Where they're not meaning to but when they're just trying to offer you know an additional convenient service. Um, are you also seeing, you know, that?
Scott Anchin
40:05
I think one of the great things that community banks do is when they open an account or they onboard someone to a new service, it's a very hands-on approach and so they really know the customer, they know their needs. Uh and that helps them to recognize situations where uh opening an account or something like that may be fraudulent. But what I do see uh is that community banks have taken a really intentional look at the technologies and services that are available right now. Yes. And they're adopting them in a very measured and strategic way, which I like.
Hailey Windham
40:38
Yes.
Scott Anchin
40:39
Uh I think part of thinking carefully about your fraud and uh scams posture is thinking holistically and strategically. So I do see adoption of these technologies in a sensible way.
Hailey Windham
40:51
Yeah, I love that so much. Um, again, as we are here at the IAFCI International Conference in Nashville, I'd love to know what your thoughts are on the IAFCI in general and then of course this conference.
Scott Anchin
41:03
Yeah, absolutely. So, a great organization. I mean, I think the the geological or the breath and scope is is such an advantage.
Hailey Windham
41:10
Yes.
Scott Anchin
41:11
And and I love that that really parallels what we see at ICBA with our members, who are spread out across the country. And that brings a lot of opportunity to talk about ways that the fraud and scam frauds and scams that they're seeing are the same and ways that they differ across uh geographic areas. So, so I think that's great. Uh I think that the focus of law enforcement now on investigating and prosecuting fraud and scams is a really positive thing. Uh and one of the things that we've done at ICBA is, we've worked really hard to help community banks to build those partnerships with law enforcement.
Hailey Windham
41:47
Yes.
Scott Anchin
41:48
And so we recently uh introduced a guide that we authored uh in collaboration with IAFCI which is our partnership framework for mutual success.
Hailey Windham
41:57
Okay.
Scott Anchin
41:58
Uh which community bankers and law enforcement uh individuals can download from our ICBA.org website. Uh and so this is a great opportunity to share uh the benefits of those partnerships, how those partnerships can work. Uh so really really happy to be here.
Hailey Windham
42:14
I love that and so glad that you're here too. Um obviously I reached out to you and I was like can we please chat in person, happy to meet you. Um last final question just so I can uh let you get back to the conference and because I'm pretty sure one's going to let out soon and then no one's going to see the camera and they won't be able to see us. Um, if you had one word to describe fraud for 2026, what would it be?
Scott Anchin
42:37
Interesting.
Hailey Windham
42:38
Ah,
Scott Anchin
42:39
Which actually wasn't my word, but that could be. I was just saying interesting to the question, but it, you know, it really is interesting because there's such, I think, a tension between an increase we see in now speed of transactions from instant payments, uh, from stable coins, things like that, uh, versus some of the fraud concerns that those bring. And that to me is an interesting tension because for a long time uh speedy payments were held up as being a significant advantage but I think we now see some of the cons.
Hailey Windham
43:10
Yeah.
Scott Anchin
43:10
But those you know relative to fraud and scams but those examples those advantages still exist. And so I think we have an interesting tension that folks are wrestling with right now and that will continue to be a challenge in 2026.
Hailey Windham
43:24
I love that. I love that so much. Um, sorry that I took your first word interesting and thought that was your word. Did you have another word you wanted to use?
Scott Anchin
43:31
No, that really worked out well because I had to come up with another word.
Hailey Windham
43:33
Oh, good. Wonderful. Well, I think uh you are exactly right. It's either it's very interesting always. Um, and the other thing is that it is always evolving. So, we have to stay curious, right? And we have to keep uh pushing forward, keep trying to learn from others. And so, that's one of the great reasons I was really happy to have you on to learn from your insights and just really appreciate you joining me today.
Scott Anchin
43:53
Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? Although you were closing, I actually did think of a second word. And I think it's policy progress. Two words, but maybe we can hyphenate those.
Hailey Windham
44:02
We can hyphenate it. Yeah.
Scott Anchin
44:03
Yeah. Because one of the things we're seeing is a lot of attention from regulators and members of Congress on doing what they can do from a legislative and regulatory perspective to stem the tide to the extent that they're able. And I think that that marks a significant shift uh relative to what we've seen in the past. So that's another thing I think on the horizon to look forward to which is really positive.
Hailey Windham
44:26
I love that so much. Thank you again so much for joining me.
Scott Anchin
44:28
Yeah, absolutely. Great to be here.
Hailey Windham
44:30
All right. So I'd love it if you could describe, you know, uh obviously well introduce yourself, you know, who you are and what it is that you do for the organization.
Chris Gergeni
44:36
My name is Chris Gergni. I'm the new as of six months ago last week executive director. Um I come from almost 29 years in nonprofit management, event management. Um anything to do with with events and nonprofits and membership organizations. That's what I've done pretty much my entire career.
Hailey Windham
44:53
Wow. And and so that's what you're doing now for us with the IAFCI.
Chris Gergeni
44:57
Correct. I I've run the office. I handle the the policies that the board sets forth and enact them and make sure everything gets done. Um I oversee our staff and our wonderful wonderful staff. I've got five amazing, highly talented ladies working for me that just make me look real good.
Hailey Windham
45:17
You know, I've had to interact with two or I got the pleasure of interacting with two of those ladies this week and I tell you, they do make you look good.
Chris Gergeni
45:24
They make anybody look good. They're so dedicated,
Hailey Windham
45:27
Phenomenal people. I just truly loved watching them. And you know, there was a time that I um as a vendor, you know, we had a name badge that there was something wrong with it. And I walked in, I said, "Hey, can I get this?" And she was like, "Yeah, right now." And it I mean it was instant. So I very grateful for for your your team and and for all that you do for all of us. I know that you're you're one of the ones that you know when we send that email it's it's Chris who's going to help uh respond. So I appreciate you
Chris Gergeni
45:51
100%. We're we're a membership organization first and if we don't have you all as members, we don't exist.
Hailey Windham
45:57
True.
Chris Gergeni
45:58
So our first and last focus is always on the members.
Hailey Windham
46:01
Love that. So um you know you've said you've you know had your career working with nonprofits. I' I'd love to know why the IAFCI?
Chris Gergeni
46:10
As I told the board when they were interviewing and hiring me and I've told others, I'm not mercenary. I have to find something I can truly believe in. I have to have something I can put my energy into. Um and and for me, law enforcement, fraud, and crime prevention are a natural fit.
Hailey Windham
46:27
Yeah.
Chris Gergeni
46:27
I've got three degrees in political science. Um that has always led me and a lot of family are in law enforcement and banking and everything that we as a group do and my my son last night at dinner said, "You know, Dad, this has been the best fit for you so far. It's totally up your alley. I don't see as soon as you told me about I know it was you."
Hailey Windham
46:48
I love that so much and and it's evident. You know, you can tell when someone's not passionate about what they do.
Chris Gergeni
46:52
Yes.
Hailey Windham
46:53
Um and and it's clear that I I'm glad you're here. I'll I'll just leave it at that. That's wonderful. So, um this will technically be your first IAFCI conference uh on our uh as our executive director, but what do you think of the conference here in Nashville?
Chris Gergeni
47:10
It's been excellent. Um things have considering all the major changes in the association in our in our new um community system, through higher logic and everything else, a new committee structure for this. We've really, most of you never see any of the problems in the background, other than maybe a name tag like you said that needed replaced. The things that did crop up we dealt with immediately. We got them deal done and behind us. We know they happened. It eats at me because I'm a bit of a perfectionist on that and always irritated if I miss something. But you never catch it all. And so the first couple days you're the duck. It look may look calm on the surface but you're kicking it for all you got below the water line. So,
Hailey Windham
47:51
Well, I tell you, I I've heard nothing but positive things uh from all of the attendees that I've spoken to. I know that I myself have also been very impressed. I was also very grateful to be able to come into the podcast lounge. Um so, I believe it was going to be four of us, but I think it turned into two of us, which works out just fine uh as well. Um it's been very busy. Lots of great conversations, lots of people just truly wanting to to give back and to share.
Chris Gergeni
48:15
This this organization is built off you know every organization you join it because you care but it goes deeper here and from what I'm seeing because it gets very personal. Whether it's the banking whether it's the the private sector or law enforcement because you see the impact day to day on you know granny or on a young couple or a single mom or or an elderly gentleman that's been defrauded have been lied to been mistreated abused. You know, the stories. You get the warm feelings from it, and that's a big part of the reward.
Hailey Windham
48:47
Yeah.
Chris Gergeni
48:47
For everyone in this organization and that's not going to go away anytime soon from what I can tell.
Hailey Windham
48:51
Yeah. I I don't think so either. I think um you know I'm I'm so grateful for for all that um you know Mark and Mike have given to this organization over the last several years. Um and and now you know we've got new leadership coming in which is exciting also. Um I I just think that you know there there there's only up from here. This this is just a you know we're on to the next path.
Chris Gergeni
49:13
We we are taking it to the next level.
Hailey Windham
49:14
Yeah.
Chris Gergeni
49:15
We're going to keep incorporating. We just today, literally today, launched our ICIC cryptocurrency certification. The first nine, eight or nine people received their certifications today during a in a small ceremony during the presentation. Um that's going to be going that's that's an absolutely earthshattering new change for the association. We just signed for the SAPTA certification agreement two days ago. We got more things in the works. We've got a lot more membership programs. We're focusing on education. We're definitely focusing on marketing because sometimes we're the best kept secret in the in the universe.
Hailey Windham
49:52
I agree. I agree. Once I found you guys, I was like, "Wait a minute. Why don't more people know? Why aren't banks uh utilizing that buy one get one and helping law enforcement and then making ways for them to be, you know, more friendlier?"
Chris Gergeni
50:05
100%.
Hailey Windham
50:06
Yeah. So, um, again, Chris, I I know that you've got to get back. You're a busy man. I appreciate you taking the time to to come on Fraud Forward with me and just talk about this great organization.
Chris Gergeni
50:16
I'm honored to be asked to do so. Thank you so much.
Hailey Windham
50:19
Absolutely. I've been able to see some of the interactions this week. Uh, I tell you what, uh, the conference is great, but the IAFCI, man, they know how to throw a party.
Steve Lendermen
50:28
Well, you know, I think Nashville helps a little bit. Um, you can definitely tell uh Broadway has some victims from last night, but uh, that's what we want. We want people networking, doing things, uh, you know, building those relationships that last forever, right? Those relationships build those connections and, uh, you know, when someone needs help or something. Um, you know, that's what we're most proud of is our directory, our membership who really does goes the extra mile.
Hailey Windham
50:49
Yeah. Yeah. So, I'd love to ask I've been asking, uh, throughout the week, you know, what's what's one of those favorite things about the IAFCI? Like why why do you feel so passionately about it to to literally now dedicate so much of your time?
Steve Lendermen
51:00
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I've been a member for 21 years now. Uh and so eight of those as a chapter president with Delaware Valley and then now this new journey as the international president. Um and so really draws me again is back to the the directory, the network, the relationships. Um you know I was brought in the association by somebody else, right? Um and my goal was to continue that tradition essentially of bringing new members in exposing IAFCI, right? We we all know we have to keep the next generation of fraud fighters going. Um and the association does that. Uh what we're really proud of as well is that we are a nonprofit, right? Uh and nothing against other associations, right? But we are the only nonprofit association here. So our mission is just a little different um than others. And we try to keep our our pricing at a great point, making accessible for you know um you know a brand new law enforcement officer or you know uh the head of the US Postal Inspection Service, right? We have every we have that kind of range here, right? So it's a it's it's for everybody and anybody.
Hailey Windham
51:56
Um, I was even uh privileged to talk to someone the other day and I'm hoping to have them on the podcast uh today before we close out, but where they literally used the the connections from an international and uh it was someone in South Carolina who found NYPD and they were able to do a welfare check on someone and then it was, you know, realizing now how much money has been taken from this person. And just the joy that that member from the Carolinas was expressing to me of like how how else would I have gotten someone at NYPD to literally pick up the phone and within 3 hours do a welfare check for me.
Steve Lendermen
52:30
Yeah, that's one of the things you call or an email, hey, I'm with IAFCI and uh you know, a lot of those those boundaries that tend to go down. Uh you know, we're not going to obviously um you know, violate any privacy laws, etc. But um there is a what I call professional courtesy, right? There's professional courtesy for those people to do things and and it's not just like financial crimes, right? There's the welfare of human being that is, you know, important. Uh, and so it's it's something that goes beyond just the association.
Hailey Windham
52:57
Yeah. Um, I've never been a part of a brotherhood, but I I feel like this is what that feels like.
Steve Lendermen
53:01
I say it's a personhood at this point, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But it it is that members here um you know, like any association, there is some turnover, right? But we we see once members get past year three of membership, they tend to stay for 10 to 15 years, right? And so that's something that's really unique um once they figure that out. So.
Hailey Windham
53:19
Yeah. Um so is there anything in particular that you are really excited about um when you take office January 1?
Steve Lendermen
53:27
Yeah. Um clearly you know Mark's done a great job the last four years as president, right? And so uh one of my backgrounds and things I really like to work with is technology, right? And so of course we're going to use those two letters AI is that yeah have to weave it in somewhere, right? And so um we all want to work smarter and work harder, right? As a nonprofit, we have an obligation um for to manage our finances and um you know, we just can't go hire 20 people on the staff, right? We have to be very manageable about our finance and so we can work smarter with some of these tools that are to help us out. And so, one thing I'm really looking forward to do is, you know, see how we can use AI to help us become more efficient in the office, more effective in the office.
Hailey Windham
54:03
Yes.
Steve Lendermen
54:04
Uh as well, and just to growing the membership, right? We have about 8,000 current members in the association. I would love to say by end of my term uh first two-year term hopefully we'll be at the 10,000 mark. That's that's one of my accomplish.
Hailey Windham
54:17
Same. Uh we we'll we'll work on this together. I think um I I've had the privilege this week to uh be a part of even the international board meeting and to see the the collaboration and honestly just the the willingness to help. Um it it's unlike anything I've ever experienced. And it's you know we've got presidents that are uh chapter presidents that are bankers. We've got some that are law enforcement and it's just a a breath of fresh air almost to to be surrounded by people who actually care and just want to give back.
Steve Lendermen
54:45
Yeah. It's not just we're a mix of public and private. That's it. Public and private big and small. It extends beyond traditional banking. It's we have government members. We have credit unions, fintex, cryptos, insurance, auto, right? It's all here. So that's one of the things that really makes us special as well.
Hailey Windham
55:00
Yeah. So true. Okay. So I I asked everyone and I'll ask you if you had one word to describe fraud in 2026, what would it be?
Steve Lendermen
55:09
Um ongoing increasing uh job security.
Hailey Windham
55:13
Steve, I said one. I said one word.
Steve Lendermen
55:15
Well, it's hard. It's hard. Um yeah, I think I'll use the word um beyond those. Um and not to terrifying. It's terrifying where it's going right now.
Hailey Windham
55:25
Yeah, 100%. Okay. Well, Steve, I know you have a very busy schedule. Um, I can't wait to see, you know, what the future of IAFCI looks like with you at the helm and I just appreciate everything you do and thanks again for joining me on Fraud Forward.
Steve Lendermen
55:37
Absolutely. Thanks for being here.
Hailey Windham
55:38
Of course.
Hailey Windham
55:44
Thanks for listening to Fraud Forward. Remember, every conversation, every connection, and every insight moves our industry one step closer to stronger fraud defenses. If today's episode sparked an idea, share it with your team or tag me on LinkedIn. I love hearing how you're moving fraud forward in your own organization. Until next time, stay curious, stay resilient, keep moving fraud forward.
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