Sardine named a Leader in The Forrester Wave™: Financial Crime Management Solutions, Q3 2026

Learn More
The Saturday Fraud Strategist

Modelos fundacionales aplicados al fraude: cómo funciona la tecnología detrás de ChatGPT en la lucha contra el fraude

13 min

Los modelos fundacionales aplicados a la lucha contra el fraude están en la agenda de todas las conferencias este año, y no dejo de oír la misma pregunta: ¿son una verdadera revolución o solo el próximo término de moda? Cuando aterricé en Las Vegas para asistir a Money20/20, quería preguntárselo a alguien que desarrolla soluciones con ellos a diario.

Pedro Sanzovo trabaja en productos de identidad y prevención del fraude, y ha dedicado toda su carrera a este último ámbito. Comenzó en Palantir, fundó una empresa de prevención del fraude para comercios en Brasil y la vendió a Signifyd, donde lideró el desarrollo de productos basados en modelos de aprendizaje automático. Hace seis meses se incorporó a Plaid.

Esta vez fuimos breves y prácticos. ¿Qué es un modelo fundacional y en qué se diferencia de los modelos que usamos la mayoría hoy en día? ¿En qué supera a XGBoost y dónde se topa con las mismas limitaciones? ¿Y qué haces con un embedding cuando tu equipo trabaja con reglas? Pedro dio buenas respuestas y compartió algunas cosas que creo que te interesará escuchar.

Lo que escucharás en este episodio:

  • Qué es un modelo fundacional y en qué se diferencian los modelos transformer de las reglas encadenadas y los modelos XGBoost que los equipos de prevención del fraude llevan años utilizando
  • Por qué los modelos tradicionales dependen de características diseñadas manualmente y de etiquetas de calidad para el aprendizaje supervisado, y por qué esto supone un reto para las empresas más pequeñas
  • Cómo los modelos fundacionales de datos financieros tratan las transacciones como una secuencia de eventos y predicen lo que viene a continuación
  • A qué se refiere Pedro con la mejora de la precisión de hasta un 34 % que está observando y por qué la calidad de los datos sigue determinando el resultado
  • Por qué las restricciones de latencia, como los 300 milisegundos para las transacciones con tarjeta, determinan qué modelo es adecuado en cada caso
  • Cómo se compara la explicabilidad de los modelos fundacionales con la de XGBoost y por qué las expectativas son distintas en materia de crédito y fraude
  • Por qué es difícil convertir los embeddings en reglas y cómo podrían ayudar los agentes de IA

Deberías escuchar este episodio si:

  • Diriges un equipo de ciencia de datos especializado en fraude o formas parte de él y estás decidiendo si explorar los modelos fundacionales
  • Diriges un pequeño equipo de lucha contra el fraude y tienes dificultades con el etiquetado de datos y la ingeniería de características
  • Quieres una explicación sencilla de en qué se diferencian los modelos fundacionales de XGBoost
  • Necesitan sopesar las mejoras de precisión frente a la latencia y la explicabilidad
  • Sienten curiosidad por saber cómo los embeddings y los agentes de IA podrían trabajar juntos para generar reglas de detección de fraude
Notas del episodio y conclusiones clave

De las reglas a XGBoost y a los transformadores

Pedro explica la evolución de forma sencilla. Durante 10 o 15 años, la prevención del fraude se basó en reglas encadenadas; después, XGBoost permitió utilizar muchos más datos para tomar pequeñas decisiones con una latencia muy baja. Ese fue el enfoque más avanzado durante aproximadamente una década. Señalé que, desde una perspectiva algorítmica, esos modelos se parecen mucho a las reglas, y Pedro coincidió en que comparten sus inconvenientes. Desarrollarlos requiere mucho trabajo, necesitan científicos de datos que programen las variables y dependen de etiquetas claras para el aprendizaje supervisado. Si se etiqueta algo de forma incorrecta, los datos de mala calidad producen resultados de mala calidad, y eso resulta especialmente difícil para las empresas más pequeñas. La conclusión es que los modelos tradicionales funcionan, pero hacen recaer la carga de trabajo en las personas.

Qué cambia con un modelo fundacional

Los modelos transformer son la base de los LLM que todos usamos y funcionan tratando la información como una secuencia y prediciendo la siguiente salida más probable. Pedro se pregunta qué pasaría si hiciéramos lo mismo con los datos financieros. Plaid y otras empresas ya codifican la información financiera como una secuencia de eventos y crean embeddings que sustituyen a las características diseñadas manualmente. Los equipos dependen menos de la ingeniería de características y necesitan etiquetas menos precisas, aunque siguen haciendo falta algunas. Pedro observa una mejora de la precisión de hasta un 34 %, lo que coincide con lo que veo en el sector. Sin embargo, el problema de fondo persiste. Los datos de mala calidad producen malos resultados, e incluso algo tan sencillo como contar con marcas de tiempo precisas es más fácil de decir que de hacer. Estos modelos pueden procesar más datos, pero no disponemos de una cantidad ilimitada de datos limpios, y es posible que los equipos tengan que empezar a recopilar datos que nunca antes habían almacenado.

La latencia, la precisión y la explicabilidad determinan dónde encaja cada modelo

Le pregunté cómo encaja todo esto con el aprendizaje automático y los modelos de decisión más recientes. Pedro se fija en las variables objetivo y las restricciones. El objetivo suele ser la precisión y la exhaustividad, y la mayor restricción es la latencia. Para decidir sobre una transacción con tarjeta se dispone de unos 300 milisegundos o menos, mientras que los procesos de alta o los casos de abuso de promociones dejan mucho más margen. En su opinión, un buen equipo de ciencia e ingeniería de datos debe explorar las opciones, tener claro qué busca optimizar y dejar que los datos decidan. Si un modelo supera la precisión del actual con las mismas restricciones, gana. La explicabilidad es su otra preocupación. XGBoost nunca la resolvió del todo, pero es mucho más fácil trabajar con él que con un transformer. En el ámbito crediticio, la explicabilidad es un requisito normativo; en la detección del fraude, no. La respuesta adecuada depende del caso de uso.

De embeddings a reglas con agentes de IA

Añadí que los embeddings son un atajo para la ingeniería de características, pero no se pueden usar en reglas. Pedro pensó enseguida en los agentes. Su equipo está experimentando con proporcionar embeddings a los agentes y pedirles que vean si pueden convertir algunos de ellos en reglas y detectar lagunas. Sigue siendo necesaria una persona que decida si el trabajo es bueno. Las cosas no se están simplificando, y Pedro dice que se están volviendo más divertidas. Coincido en que tenemos más opciones y más juguetes con los que experimentar. Cada uno tiene ventajas e inconvenientes que los equipos deben entender antes de decidirse.

Conclusión final

Los modelos fundacionales son la herramienta más reciente para combatir el fraude. No sustituyen a los datos de calidad. Pedro aconseja tener claro qué se busca optimizar, respetar las limitaciones y dejar que los resultados decidan. Si estás eligiendo entre modelos tradicionales y modelos fundacionales, empieza por evaluar la calidad de los datos en los que se basan. Apenas estamos empezando a comprender cómo estos modelos transforman el trabajo, y creo que los mejores equipos los tratarán como una opción prometedora que hay que poner a prueba, no como una solución definitiva.

Recursos y enlaces

¿No quieres dejar de hablar de mi tema favorito, y espero que también del tuyo? Suscríbete al boletín The Saturday Fraud Strategist.

Conecta con Pedro Sanzovo | LinkedIn
Director general y responsable de Fraude en Plaid

Conecta con Chen Zamir | LinkedIn
Presentador de The Saturday Fraud Strategist
Ayuda a las empresas fintech a desarrollar defensas más inteligentes contra el fraude
Coautor de «La guía de IA para combatir el fraude»

Episode transcript
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
00:06
Hi everybody and welcome to another live special episode from
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
00:09
Money 20/20 Vegas with me today Pedro Sanzovo from Plaid.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
00:13
Welcome to the show. Lovely to meet you.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:16
So happy to be here.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:17
Excited to be here Money 20/20 and talk to you about fraud.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
00:21
Yeah. So we just started the conference has just started.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
00:24
I want to speak to you shortly about found foundation models in fraud.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
00:27
Tell us a bit about who you are, what you've been up to so far.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:31
Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so I joined Plaid only six months ago.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
00:35
Okay.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:35
But I've been in the fraud space for, well my whole career really.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:39
It was started Palantir.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:41
That was my first foray into defensive technologies, let's call it.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:45
Moved back to Brazil and started my own company in the transactional
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:50
fraud space focused on the on merchants and servicing merchants,
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:54
helping prevent chargeback, uh, all that jazz.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
00:57
We we ran that company for about five or six years.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:00
Uh and had a successful exit to Signified.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:03
Back in 2018 at Signified, I was leading a lot of the the uh the
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:07
product work most focused on machine learning, modeling, making
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:12
sure that we're creating top-of-the-line models there.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:15
And I had the opportunity early this year to come over to Plaid
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:19
uh and help us continue building this incredible work that
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:23
Plaid has been doing over the last few years on building
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:27
really good identity and fraud products for the market.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
01:33
Pedro,
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:34
Yeah,
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
01:34
Let's talk about foundation foundation models.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:37
Uh like to yeah, yeah.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
01:39
Yeah that's that's the hippest term now in uh in fraud.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
01:42
Let's start with the basics like what's foundation models?
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
01:46
Uh how are they different from regular legacy machine learning models?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:53
Cool. Yeah.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:54
The the way that I like to think about it like think
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
01:57
about the history of fraud prevention, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:00
Uh 10 maybe 15 years everyone was basically creating
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:03
those set of chained rules, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:06
Uh waterfalls that were basically making decisions.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:09
Um at some point the the industry realized that there
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:13
were a type of algorithmic approach namely XG boost.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:16
So the uh extreme gradient boosted uh random forests that allowed
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:20
for a lot more data to be encompassed into micro decisions that
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:25
ultimately resulted in better prediction with super low latency
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:29
and those became effectively the state-of-the-art in the
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:33
front end industry for the last 10 years at the very
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
02:48
They also look very much similar to rules,
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
02:50
right, from an algorithmic perspective.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:52
Yes. Right. And they have the same downsides of rules.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:55
What are the downsides of rules?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
02:57
They on one hand they're very they're very labor some to build.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:00
There's a lot of feature engineering
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:03
that needs to go into it, right?
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
03:05
Adapting the index, the features, yeah.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:07
It's not self-learning.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:08
You need data scientists to actually be coding up the features,
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:11
understanding what the traffic is telling you.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:13
And then like whenever there's a change in behavior, you need to
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:16
put your data scientists, your fraud investigators should actually
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:19
understand like okay what the hell is happening here?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:22
How can we codify that into a feature? Let's build that feature.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:25
Let's throw into the model. Let's train it offline.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:27
Let's move it online and then try to figure out
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:29
if it actually providing lift and precision.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:32
Um and it's also very very dependent on label
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:34
sets and very clear label sets, right?
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
03:36
Supervised learning.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:37
Supervised learning. Exactly. Supervised learning.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:39
So you need to point the model to this is
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:41
the thing that I want you to predict.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:43
This is the thing that I don't want you to predict, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:46
And you need to keep those models
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
03:48
And that's very labor intense, right? That's not easy.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:51
Labor intensive.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:52
It's very complicated, especially for smaller companies, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:56
Uh and then you get into this game that if you're
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
03:59
labeling things incorrectly, you're screwed.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:02
Trash in, trash out, right? It's a massive problem.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:05
What happened over the last let's say five years or so
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:09
is that um super super super smart people figured out
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:13
that there was different way of codifying information
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:16
that does not resemble those decision trees, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:19
And those are the transformer-based models.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:22
Fundamentally those transformer-based models is what is
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:26
backing the LLMs right that we all use uh to an extreme
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:30
now like ChatGPT, Anthropic, Claude all that jazz.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:33
And all it does to a certain extent is that it codifies
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:37
information as a sequence of inputs, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:40
And LLM's those are words or those are letters and then tries to
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:44
predict what is the next most likely output of that sequence.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
04:48
Again for LLMs that's a word that's a letter
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
05:03
What what If we could do the same for fraud, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:05
What if we could do the same for financial data?
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
05:09
Mhm.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:09
I I think that's the question that everyone started asking.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:12
It's like, okay, instead of codifying letters and words,
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:16
what if we codified financial information, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:19
So that is what well we at Plaid started doing and a
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:22
lot of players in the industry are doing as well.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:25
We're codifying financial information.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:28
And we're codifying our data as the sequence of events.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:31
And then we're creating those things called embeddings, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:35
Which ultimately are the inputs for the model
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:38
to try to figure out, okay, what is the next
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
05:41
Instead of these handcrafted features that you described before for
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
05:44
post, we have now embeddings that are created by the foundation model.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:48
And the beauty of this approach is that you rely less on
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:51
humanmade feature engineering and also label science.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:54
You still need to some labels.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:56
You need to feed into it, but it doesn't need to be the same
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
05:59
degree of precision that actually boost models needed.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:02
What's the downside?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:03
There there are a few downsides and we're still
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:06
kind of learning how to use them, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:08
Uh but actually before we go to downsides, they're good.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:12
They're predictive, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:13
At least I think we we're seeing right
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:15
now an uplift in precision up to 34%.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
06:18
That's very much in line with what we're seeing.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:21
That's in line with what we're seeing in industry.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:23
Uh but again, I think what's important to keep in mind is
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:27
that the same problem that existed in actually boost trash
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:30
in trash out still exists to a certain extent.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
06:33
Interesting. How does trash look like for a foundation model?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:37
It's poor data, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:38
If your data is not clean, if the data quality is poor and on its
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:41
essence, the model is not going to be able to codify those sequences.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:45
So a simple example is one of the most interesting elements
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:49
of those foundational transform transformer based models
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:52
is uh the time based events and sequencing, right?
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
06:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
06:57
If you don't have a really good way to key those times and like
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:00
that's something that if anyone has ever worked with data, you
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:04
know that making sure that your time columns or time data assets
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:08
are precise and they're not getting funky with like time
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:11
zones and whatnot, it's easier said than done, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:14
And that problem still exists in transform models.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:17
So you need to make sure that that underlying data asset is
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:20
trustworthy, is rich, and then the algorithm is going to do its work, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:25
And it's going to do its magic.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:27
Uh but it doesn't solve for the foundational issue.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
07:30
And it sounds simple, but I think where where I've seen
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
07:33
organization kind of like get it wrong or get it messy
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
07:36
is exactly where you know like status has arrived.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
07:39
And you need to kind of like keep the time stamp of the status
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
07:42
or velocity attributes and like when did I actually see these
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
07:46
links or connections and when you don't have that.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:49
Totally.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:49
And now it's interesting because those models they're able to absorb
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:53
a lot more data than actually boost trust or to an extent, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
07:57
It's like the whole kind of dynamic that we're seeing even on
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:00
the LLM is that the more compute that we put into it, the more
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:04
data that we put into it, the more precision it shows.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:07
In theory, that should be the same that we
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:09
should see in the financial ecosystem.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:11
The more data that we put into it, the more compute that we put
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:15
into it, the better precision we're going to see, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:18
But the problem is that data we don't have a 8:25 limitless
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:21
amount of good quality cleaned data, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:23
What we're learning is okay like we have our essential
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:26
set of that asset that is going to the model.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:29
Now let's bring this new that asset that we have
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:32
never been able to incompass an extra boost. Oh damn, okay.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:35
That that asset is not ready for it it needs to be cleaned it needs
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:39
to be treated it should like we need to start collecting it.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:42
Data that we weren't collecting before that
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:44
we weren't storing the right Hey. Yeah.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:46
Um, so there's there's again a lot of
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
08:48
foundational work to make that work.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
08:51
Yeah.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
08:52
And I think that, you know, to an extent it still is
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
08:55
the same problem that we had with again legacy. It's funny.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
08:59
It's funny to kind speak about like that
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:02
with legacy machine learning models.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:04
Also there you cannot really train on fresh data without
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:08
auditing the data and making sure that it's it's
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:11
clean and the labels are clean and so on. Last question.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:15
Uh super new, like what two months maybe, but we now have Jev.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
09:20
Yeah.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:21
Uh so you know we're kind of like we we are just getting our heads
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:24
wrapped around this concept of foundation models and now we have the
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:28
system one or decision models or whatever you want to call it, uh that
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:32
you know work differently than uh than you know LLM and foundation models.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:37
Uh they are much more fit uh for a purpose in terms of
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:40
um you know like real time operations and so on.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:43
How do you see the play between you know we have like
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:46
machine learning models, we have foundation models
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:49
and we have now decision decision models.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
09:51
How do you see like the the scope here?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
09:54
I mean it's you got to think about what are your target variables
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
09:58
in any exercise and what are your constraints?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:00
For the world of fraud prevention, Generally what I'm
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:04
thinking about when I think about target variables,
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:07
I'm thinking about precision recall right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:10
I'm thinking about true positives, false positives,
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:13
the quadrants that we all know.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:15
What but I got to think about the constraints.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:18
And a big constraint is latency
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
10:20
Yes
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:21
Right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:21
So depending on the use case that you're facing latency
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:25
constraints are going to be wildly different.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:27
If you're trying to make like transaction transaction decisions for
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:31
credit cards for instance or debit cards, your latency budget is
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:35
very very minimum generally under 300 milliseconds or or or even lower.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:40
If you're doing onboarding or promo abuse, then
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:42
your latency constraints are way larger.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:45
So then you have a lot more room to play with. Okay.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:48
Optimizing the target variables.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:50
And so the way that I think about it is if you have a
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:53
good data science team and a good data engineering team,
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:56
you're bound where where it's almost mandatory that
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
10:59
you need to explore the options out there. You need to do research.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
11:04
Yeah.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:05
And then you need to have clarity on what are
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:07
you actually trying to optimize for, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:10
Uh and honestly, I think the beauty of our of our industry
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:13
is that the data tells the truth ultimately.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:16
If you have a model that beats your precision with the same kind of
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:20
constraints and respecting the constraints in place, it wins.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
11:24
Yeah.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:25
Right. Then there's another, if I may,
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
11:27
Go for it.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:28
There's another thing that gets me concerned about this
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:31
new age of modeling which is explainability, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:35
So like one of the things and XG boost never really solved that but
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
11:40
It's much easier with XG Boost.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:41
It's much easier, right? It's much easier.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:43
You can get a sense like humans can interact with
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:46
the outputs of those models in decent ways.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:48
It's much harder to do with trans with foundational
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:51
models for transformer based models and with Jev
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:54
I imagine that the constraint is the same. The problem is the same.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:57
So, how can we walk that line?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
11:59
And again, it depends a lot of the use case, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:02
If we're talking about risk, credit has a
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:04
regulatory mandate for explainability.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:07
Yes.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:08
That is very different from fraud.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:09
Yes.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:10
Right. So,
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:11
And and I would add maybe to to close uh things off, I would
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:14
add that, you know, these embeddings, you know, they they
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:18
short like it's a shortcut to feature engineering.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:21
I don't need the talent. I don't need the effort.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:24
I don't need to handcraft it.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:26
But I can also not really use them in rules.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:29
Yep. Exactly. So, so yeah,
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:32
So then you need to kind of like go through that
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
12:34
effort in order to to like write rules.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:36
Totally. And then it gets into I think you're totally right.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:39
And that's well immediately I start thinking about agents, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:42
It's like okay, you know who can kind of understand some of those
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:46
embeddings but in the humans potentially agent, right?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:49
So like things that we're experimenting with is
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:52
okay can we feed agents embeddings and can they
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:54
transform some of those into rules, right? Can they find the gaps?
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
12:58
Uh and obviously you you still need a human in the loop to
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
13:01
try to figure out okay like is this actually good work.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
13:04
But I think that's the direction that we need to explore
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
13:08
Yeah I mean folks uh things are not getting simpler
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
13:11
No
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
13:12
That's the bad news
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
13:13
They are getting more fun I think
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
13:14
The good news it's more fun, more options, more toys to play with.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
13:17
Pedro enjoyed it. We should uh do a proper sit down
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
13:20
Lets do it
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
13:21
In the podcast and enjoy the conference, man.
A close-up headshot of a young man with brown eyes, messy brown hair, and light stubble wearing a black t-shirt against a plain, light background.
Pedro Sanzovo
13:24
Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Chen Zamir
Chen Zamir
13:26
See you next Saturday.