Guest: Gil Rosenthal
Today I’m talking with Gil Rosenthal about something fraud teams end up explaining over and over again, and usually to the same audience. Leadership. More specifically, the idea that fraud is just a cost of doing business, or that growth and security somehow have to compete with each other.
I do not buy that. Gil does not either.
Because when a company treats fraud like an unavoidable tax on growth, what it is usually doing is accepting preventable losses, preventable customer friction, and preventable trust damage. That is not a growth strategy. That is a visibility problem. It just sounds more acceptable in a boardroom.
And that matters.
In this conversation, Gil and I get into fraud ROI, fraud leadership communication, and the bigger challenge of helping executives understand that customer experience and fraud are not opposites. In fact, the strongest companies usually get both right together. The weaker ones tend to believe they have to sacrifice one for the other. That usually does not end well.
Here is what that means in practice:
- Fraud ROI is not just about chargebacks, it is about customer trust, efficiency, and long-term growth
- Fraud leadership communication matters because executives often respond to business framing, not fraud framing
- Security and growth balance is possible when companies design for both instead of forcing a tradeoff
- Fraud team advocacy gets stronger when fraud leaders explain value in terms leadership already understands
What you’ll hear in this episode:
- Why fraud is not cost of doing business and why that mindset creates bigger losses
- How Gil and I approach C-suite fraud conversations when executives push back on fraud investment
- What the “shopping mall” versus “amusement park” idea reveals about customer experience and fraud
- How to make the fraud business case in a way leadership can actually hear
- Why secure growth strategy requires both fraud prevention value and customer trust
You should listen to this episode if you:
- Lead a fraud, trust and safety, or risk team and need stronger fraud leadership communication
- Are trying to prove fraud ROI to executives or build better leadership buy-in
- Want a smarter way to talk about customer experience and fraud without sounding defensive
- Need help showing why fraud and revenue growth can work together
- Care about fraud program impact, fraud team advocacy, and building a stronger fraud business case
If you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe and review the podcast on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps with getting the word out.
Episode notes & key takeaways
This episode gets into one of the most common frustrations fraud fighters have, which is trying to explain that fraud prevention is not just about loss reduction. It is also about enabling a better business. A healthier customer experience. Better decisions. Better growth. Better trust. That is the conversation Gil and I wanted to have here.
Why fraud ROI gets misunderstood in leadership conversations
Let’s break this down.
A lot of executives say they care about fraud until the conversation turns into budget, friction, or approval rates. Then suddenly the framing changes. Fraud becomes “a cost of doing business.” As if the only real options are accept the losses or slow everything down.
That is a false choice.
Fraud ROI gets misunderstood because too many companies measure fraud value too narrowly. They look at chargebacks. Maybe direct loss. Maybe manual review cost. But they miss the downstream effects. Customer churn after account takeover. Bad support experiences. Lost trust. Operational drag. Higher dispute rates. Internal firefighting. All of that is part of the ROI story too.
And that matters.
- Fraud ROI is often underestimated when leaders only look at direct loss metrics
- Fraud prevention value includes customer trust, operational efficiency, and better long-term outcomes
- Fraud business case conversations are stronger when they include both risk and business enablement
- Leadership buy-in usually improves when fraud teams explain impact in broader business terms
Why fraud is not cost of doing business
Here’s what’s actually happening.
When leaders say fraud is just a cost of doing business, what they usually mean is they do not yet see a better alternative clearly enough. That does not make the statement true. It just means the organization has not done enough work to connect fraud decisions to real business consequences.
Because fraud is not some harmless background expense.
It affects customer experience. It affects margin. It affects trust. It affects reputation. And if it gets bad enough, it affects the entire way the company operates. So no, I do not think fraud is just a cost of doing business. I think unmanaged fraud is a cost of underestimating the problem.
That is a very different thing.
- Fraud is not cost of doing business when the losses are preventable with stronger strategy
- Fraud program impact often extends well beyond the fraud team’s dashboard
- Customer trust and security are business assets, not side benefits
- Trust and safety strategy gets stronger when leaders stop normalizing avoidable loss
What growth and security actually look like together
This is where things get interesting.
Gil and I talk about how online companies can feel like either a shopping mall or an amusement park, and that analogy works because it gets at something deeper. The best experiences do not just remove friction randomly. They create an environment where legitimate customers feel comfortable, guided, and protected. That is not anti-growth. That is smart design.
A lot of leaders still hear “security” and picture more barriers.
But good secure growth strategy is not about making everything harder. It is about using the right kind of friction in the right places, and reducing the wrong kind everywhere else. That is how customer experience and fraud can support each other instead of fighting each other.
Right.
- Security and growth balance works when companies design trust into the experience
- Customer experience and fraud should be managed together, not by separate competing goals
- Secure growth strategy depends on targeted controls, not blanket friction
- Fraud and revenue growth improve together when good customers are protected and bad actors are disrupted
How to handle C-suite fraud conversations better
This is one of those topics that sounds simple until you are in the room.
C-suite fraud conversations are hard because fraud teams often know the risk cold, but leadership is thinking about priorities across the whole business. Revenue. Growth. Customer retention. Investor expectations. Cost pressure. Product velocity. All of it. So if the fraud team walks in talking only about fraud, it can lose the room quickly.
That usually creates frustration on both sides.
The better approach is fraud leadership communication that connects fraud to what the executive already cares about. Show the business tradeoff. Show the operational cost. Show the customer impact. Show the risk of not acting. And show how better fraud decisions support the company’s larger goals instead of blocking them.
That is when the conversation starts getting better.
- C-suite fraud conversations go better when fraud is framed in business language
- Fraud leadership communication should connect risk to revenue, trust, and operational outcomes
- Leadership buy-in depends on clarity, not just urgency
- Fraud team advocacy is strongest when the message is strategic instead of purely reactive
Why this matters for fraud leaders right now
Honestly, this is one of the biggest leadership issues in fraud.
A lot of smart fraud teams are doing good work but still struggling to get the influence they need because they are measured too narrowly or heard too narrowly. That is why I think conversations like this matter. Fraud leaders need to be able to explain their work as part of business performance, not just fraud performance.
That is the part that holds up.
Gil brings a really useful perspective here because he understands both the mechanics of fraud and the leadership challenge of getting organizations to take the right lesson from it. Not panic. Not overcorrect. Just stop pretending growth and security are enemies.
The big takeaway from this episode is pretty straightforward. Fraud ROI becomes much easier to defend when leaders understand that fraud prevention is not just about blocking bad activity. It is about enabling better growth, better trust, and a better customer experience. And that is exactly why growth and security are not mutually exclusive.
